Re: [iucg] IDNA, IRI, HTML5 coordination
jean-michel bernier de portzamparc <jmabdp@gmail.com> Fri, 18 September 2009 23:33 UTC
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Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:34:07 +0200
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From: jean-michel bernier de portzamparc <jmabdp@gmail.com>
To: internet users contributing group <iucg@ietf.org>
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Cc: public-iri@w3.org, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
Subject: Re: [iucg] IDNA, IRI, HTML5 coordination
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Larry, also what about RFIDs ? jfc 2009/9/17 JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com> > Larry, > please note that the IUCG (iucg@ietf.org) (Internet users contributing > group) explores the Intersem (semiotic Internet), its semantic addressing > system as a layer above the DNS layer and the support of Internet > presentations. > > Our schedule is; > > - to see the IDNA work to get completed, so we can make sure that our > additions to IDNA do not prevent us to be 100% IDNA compliant. > - to document our initially intended framework. Hopefully next month, if > IDNA is sent to the IESG in the coming weeks. Our intent would be the > IETF/LC to know why we introduce one character option/change in IDNA so we > may understand if we should present our needed solution as an IDNA extension > or alternative. > > Best > JFC Morfin > IUCG Moderator > http://iucg.org > > 2009/9/16 Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com> > > Goal: bring together and coordinate the definitions >> of what is used for resource identification in the web and elsewhere >> (IRIs as the evolution of URL, URI, IRI, HREF, Web Address, etc.) >> within W3C, IETF and their specifications. See "design goals" below. >> >> Goal of this message: lay out the concerned groups, start discussion >> of process for coordination. >> >> I've bcc'd everyone except the public-iri@w3.org mailing list, >> archive http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-iri/ as the >> list proposed for discussion: >> >> >> My suggestion for how to get all of these groups to coordinate >> is to start an IETF working group with a charter to bring these >> specifications into alignment. I can't think of any other process >> which can accomplish the goal. >> >> PLEASE, PLEASE: if you're going to post an opinion, please at least >> cc public-iri@w3.org and try to keep discussion there. >> >> PLEASE: Separate 'process' issues (should there be a working group? >> Who else needs to be involved? What's the timing and when?) from >> technical issues. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Larry >> >> ================= >> (Incomplete) list of specifications, groups, chairs, editors: >> >> HTTP: >> >> [HTTPBIS-URI] HTTP URI scheme def in HTTPBIS draft: >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-07#section-9.2 >> [HTTP-RFC<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-07#section-9.2%0A[HTTP-RFC>] >> current HTTP URI scheme definition >> in RFC 2616 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-3.2.2 >> [HTTPBIS-WG<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-3.2.2%0A[HTTPBIS-WG>] >> IETF HTTPBIS working group >> charter: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/charters >> http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/httpbis-charter.html >> mailing list: ietf-http-wg@w3.org, >> archives http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/ >> chair: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> >> editors: Roy Fielding <fielding@gbiv.com>, >> Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@greenbytes.de>, (others) >> >> IDNA: >> [IDNABIS-*] definitions, policies, standards for how Internationalized >> Domain Names should be handled in Internet applications >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idnabis-defs/ >> [IDNABIS-WG] IETF IDNABIS working group >> charter: http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/idnabis-charter.html >> chair: Vint Cerf <vint@google.com> >> editor: John C Klensin <klensin@jck.com> >> >> IRI: >> [IRIBIS-6] Revision under preparation: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-duerst-iri-bis-06 >> [IRIBIS-LMM<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-duerst-iri-bis-06%0A%5BIRIBIS-LMM>] >> ("Experimental" draft attempting to satisfy IDNABIS and HTML requirements) >> http://larry.masinter.net/iribis-hack.html >> ( >> http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-duerst-iri-bis.txt&url2=http://larry.masinter.net/iribis-hack.txt >> ) >> discussion on: public-iri@w3.org (among others) >> (other)editors: Martin Dürst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> >> Michel SUIGNARD <Michel@suignard.com> >> >> Mailto URI: >> >> [MAILTO-RFC] Mailto: URI scheme >> Current: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2368 >> [MAILTO-BIS <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2368%0A%5BMAILTO-BIS>] In >> preparation >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-duerst-mailto-bis-06 >> (other) editors (including) Martin Dürst (duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp) >> discussion on: uri@w3.org >> >> URI: >> >> [URI-RFC] URI spec >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986 >> mailing list: uri@w3.org >> (other) editors: Roy Fielding <fielding@gbiv.com>, Tim Berners-Lee < >> timbl@w3.org> >> [URIREG-RFC] >> URI guidelines: policies and procedures for registering new URI >> schemes >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4395 >> editors: Tony Hansen <tony@att.com> >> mailing list for URI review: uri-review@ietf.org >> >> HTML5: >> [HTML5-CURRENT] HTML5 definition of "URLs" >> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#urls >> [WEBADDRESS] Attempt to split out "Web Address" component: >> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/href/draft >> [HTML-WG <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/href/draft%0A%5BHTML-WG>] W3C Working >> Group >> charter: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ >> URL/IRI issue: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/56 >> chairs: Paul Cotton <paul.cotton@microsoft.com> >> Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com> >> Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net> >> editor: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> >> >> >> Other interested groups: >> >> IETF Applications area >> mailing list: apps-discuss@ietf.org >> area directors: Lisa Dusseault <lisa.dusseault@gmail.com>; >> Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> >> >> W3C TAG (architectural issue around URIs in W3C specs) >> mailing list: www-tag@w3.org >> archive http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/ >> issue: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/27 >> chair: Noah Mendelsohn <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com> >> >> [WHATWG] http://www.whatwg.org/ >> >> >> (Have I missed any groups, specs? I'll update this list >> and set it up somewhere) >> >> ============================================== >> Some design goals: >> >> I’ve tried to write down some of the design goals which I think are >> important; these may be in conflict, but I've tried to propose priorities >> which make sense to me. Does anyone disagree with any of these? Think some >> are missing? >> >> >> Consistent Terminology: Multiple definitions of the same terms in >> different documents are to be avoided; even consistent definitions are >> problematic. Where possible, newer documents should reference older specs. >> >> Security: Avoiding security problems (e.g., difficulties due to spoofing, >> renaming, misuse of DNS) is a high priority; avoiding security problems is a >> higher priority than being consistent with existing applications. >> >> Uniform behavior: Optional interpretation rules for resource identifiers >> which give different results depending on the processing model chosen are to >> be avoided. >> >> Consistency of web and other Internet applications: Interoperability >> between web applications (browsers, proxies, spiders, etc.) and other >> Internet applications which use resource identifiers (email, directory >> services) is important, and should be given equal (or nearly equal) priority >> as interoperability between web browsers. Recommended practice for web >> applications and other Internet applications should be the same – those >> creating web content should not be encouraged to create Resource Identifiers >> (whether called URLs, URIs, IRIs, Web Addresses) which would not function in >> other applications. >> >> Consistency of specifications with implementations: When existing >> specifications do not match the common practice of existing applications, it >> is appropriate to update the existing specification, even if long standing. >> >> Improve interoperability: When existing implementations disagree, document >> existing practice, but recommend (normatively) the behavior that will best >> lead to improved interoperability. >> >> Separate “specification of what a conservative producer should send” from >> “advice for what a liberal consumer should accept”: for robustness, the >> specification of a “conforming” resource identifier should produce can be >> (if necessary) more restrictive than the specification of what some common >> applications accept. >> >> Minimize options and specifications: The split between URI and IRI as >> separate protocol elements was unfortunate – to have two separate normative >> terms, “URI” and “IRI” to describe two variations of “resource identifiers”, >> but having unnecessary multiple non-terminals and terms is harmful. Adding >> additional terms such as “LEIRI” and “Web Address” or HREF should be >> avoided, if at all possible.. (In some ways, “URI” was the term used to >> unify “URL” and “URN”). >> >> Unless necessary for other reasons above, avoid making existing, >> conforming, and widely implemented behavior non-conforming: Applications >> which accept URIs but not IRIs should not be made “non-conforming” by a >> redefinition of terms. >> >> ============================ >> >> Some issues (I'm sure there are many more) >> >> • Can IRI -> URI transformation be scheme independent? ((optional >> processing would allow >> non-uniform behavior, not meet IDNA requirements)) >> • Use of term “URL” ((ambiguous terms)) >> • handling of extra processing rules for XML vs HTML5 vs. IRI >> document >> • Whether HTML5 references anything other than IRIbis >> • Updating the URI scheme registry to be clear that "URI schemes" >> are the same as “URL schemes” >> and “IRI schemes” >> • Can different URI schemes allow different I18N processing rules? >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Idna-update mailing list >> Idna-update@alvestrand.no >> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update >> > > > _______________________________________________ > iucg mailing list > iucg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg > >
- Re: [iucg] IDNA, IRI, HTML5 coordination JFC Morfin
- Re: [iucg] IDNA, IRI, HTML5 coordination jean-michel bernier de portzamparc
- Re: [iucg] IDNA, IRI, HTML5 coordination jefsey
- Re: [iucg] IDNA, IRI, HTML5 coordination jean-michel bernier de portzamparc
- Re: [iucg] IDNA, IRI, HTML5 coordination Marie-France Berny