Re: [Json] JSON and int64s - any change in current best practice since I-JSON

Joe Hildebrand <hildjj@cursive.net> Thu, 25 January 2024 22:42 UTC

Return-Path: <hildjj@cursive.net>
X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD06C14F6A7 for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 14:42:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.106
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cursive.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZlZOYmQKctI4 for <json@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 14:42:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05E53C14F61C for <json@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 14:42:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id ca18e2360f4ac-7bfbe61859dso575339f.1 for <json@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 14:42:12 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cursive.net; s=google; t=1706222532; x=1706827332; darn=ietf.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=RwfZpphItvCUR+jj3j1Szeq7pYiqyJJYg39A7kHW6wo=; b=IgAcHFu7YDwU3ANFZsaRwWdviIfXGij/LoZ57gBYIEW7ovwksnLS+u4rNIqmyQvcnc wxKkkjdVRjPnvDIRZ0QR4+OhroVmPqE7D7pOW8MFkESBK3Q8Ltjqz6XhYJVjs34eR/B9 xZi/iaNExZvwwWJA3bXYhq8klfk1+93nVDr3U=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706222532; x=1706827332; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=RwfZpphItvCUR+jj3j1Szeq7pYiqyJJYg39A7kHW6wo=; b=RVnVbhb6fdxyfjUt/0Qayp/5cb16svyc41ZS3eJM1recAlAsEQrEEANT9qeNeIwOzo XPrMt7+ComnYMU1ToN3oLjdTL/eH7vLKa2ZSj8PpTK/25xkgC+6mVYA8boH86fKMbabb h2CP248jekbjyUlg9Wi+GhfF7LsnRCsYCECVKAFAyWLy+aIZQsTCYBtgdiPItaqPww9P WQYxcd2pJBn8kRHt3ILINCYwtUdLTmZsJxp2Ab17ja0JRdJrEEZGsxZoBkwj1NYRRK4D 9DcMQopV3qAEn7uo2REEgPfU8wPXjXq2JDuDzyWcEs8RZNzPrRVj7wZPhzEVA/a5Teex jDJg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyVWrmvbmNgTo5ykk18gExYokaWENStJep7hu7HaxIA5ysiBfZ6 4HNR+m8OGYFvpa7fRYNYVNuzzHEqCxPWeIH04RZVjTNGDuypuD3nigLORnX0gS7uzsFR+3wUkUI =
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEIlP9fOmd2VgnqnG09OGfzoaQpnqPOGUq65qu+BRzWwLyiEmdbSMv+hSxXOGtb8y4sfYW8zA==
X-Received: by 2002:a5e:9744:0:b0:7bf:ad62:eccb with SMTP id h4-20020a5e9744000000b007bfad62eccbmr547122ioq.26.1706222532173; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 14:42:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2601:282:2100:4fc9:25e1:9353:a850:2867]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i5-20020a5d8405000000b007bbab8c40d2sm7886048ion.44.2024.01.25.14.42.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Jan 2024 14:42:11 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.300.61.1.2\))
From: Joe Hildebrand <hildjj@cursive.net>
In-Reply-To: <CAChr6SxSN_Vr55ssgyWPb+SVRSJhKfv1SHKZn5ctcZ9es582KQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 15:42:00 -0700
Cc: Daniel P <danielaparker@gmail.com>, JSON WG <json@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <6180E211-4D8F-4A70-B5A8-2A31A00A2F73@cursive.net>
References: <mailman.58.1706212803.46199.json@ietf.org> <CA+mwktLkT1ib-B6_Sye4OUUTbA762Hh2JDcLKr3AJxjUWKeWHA@mail.gmail.com> <8E48392C-B183-4035-BCAA-A2028E20F964@cursive.net> <CAChr6SxSN_Vr55ssgyWPb+SVRSJhKfv1SHKZn5ctcZ9es582KQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.300.61.1.2)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/json/1jFuZwYNRQrAUDTd8mI9aJsVDsg>
Subject: Re: [Json] JSON and int64s - any change in current best practice since I-JSON
X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" <json.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/json/>
List-Post: <mailto:json@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 22:42:17 -0000

If we were going to do any more work on this, I agree that there would have to be a unifying philosophy; I bet that would answer this question.

As it stands, unless there are a few more people who get excited about putting effort into this, it's probably not worth discussing each of the points on the laundry list until we come to conclusions.

— 
Joe Hildebrand

> On Jan 25, 2024, at 3:16 PM, Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 1:56 PM Joe Hildebrand <hildjj@cursive.net> wrote:
> Yes, unless we decided that significant digits mattered.  This was just copied from JSON5, I don't feel strongly about it myself, but apparently it's a thing that bites people trying to hand-type JSON sometimes?
> 
> That is a philosophical difference your effort should take a stand on. JSON has no comments, and it does not allow trailing commas because "that would mean someone is hand-writing it" (loose paraphrase). I think for the numbers you should check what David M. Gay's strtod things do. There, I think there is no debate, just reality (the GNU versions are close).
> 
> If you write Protocol Buffers or something, there are comments and trailing commas. This is because to disallow them would be a pain for the person adding the next field. You always have to add a field, because there is an inevitable transition phase, even if you intended to make one unused.
> 
> thanks,
> Rob
>