[Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" discussion
Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com> Wed, 31 July 2013 09:15 UTC
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:11:08 +0200
From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>
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Subject: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" discussion
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Like Matt said of the duplicate names discussion, I think we do appear to be converging (albeit more slowly) on a couple of possible outcomes in the discussion of the text model. I'll leave it to the chairs to truly summarize conclusions, but I did want to make a couple of observations that I hope can hone in on a few of those conclusions: - People did quickly slide from my more overarching question about what makes up a JSON entity to the specific question about JSON strings in particular. Though clearly my aim was to inform the issue of strings, I was hoping we could come up with a more general principle. In the end, I think we made some good progress on figuring out those general principles. - The discussion at the beginning regarding "a JSON object" vs. "a JSON text" was very revealing to me because it leads me to believe that nowhere do we have a general concept of a "JSON entity" aside from it encoding or representation in memory. I think that has made some of the discussion more difficult, but my sense is that we now share a more general view of what such a thing might be. This leads to another point: - The use of the terms "JSON parser" and "JSON generator" is often conflated with things that I would refer to as a "JSON lexer" on the parsing end of things and an "JSON encoder" or maybe a "JSON token producer" on the generator end of things. That is, when I think of a "JSON parser", I think of something that understands the semantics of the JSON entity it is creating out of the JSON text it is parsing, and conversely a "JSON generator" knows about the semantics of the JSON entity it is turning into a JSON text from some in-memory representation. Some of the difficulty in the conversation is that we know of pieces of code that don't know about the semantics and therefore don't "know" whether they are dealing with Unicode characters or just a series of Unicode scalar values. (This caused similar confusions in the duplicate names discussion.) Requirements on things that have to know the semantics are different than the requirements on things that are simply lexers or encoders. How we explain that (and what language we use for it) in the documents is independent of the point that they are different requirements. For each of these three items, I think if we end up with some explanatory text in the documents that helps make the appropriate distinctions (and note that I am being purposely agnostic on what the WG should say about each of them), I think that would help the clarity and implementability of the spec. I'll leave it to the chairs to decide where to take the discussion from here. pr -- Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/> Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478
- [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" discussi… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Nico Williams
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Jorge Chamorro
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Larry Masinter
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… John Levine
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Larry Masinter
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… John R Levine
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… Tim Bray
- Re: [Json] Some thoughts on the "text model" disc… R S