Re: [Json] [abnf-discuss] Are the Core Rules (Appendix B.1 of RFC 5234) always present in an ABNF spec?

Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com> Wed, 20 September 2023 18:15 UTC

Return-Path: <dcrocker@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A628CC151555; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:15:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.108
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YwecESgESQGz; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:15:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf1-x42e.google.com (mail-pf1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CB9BC14CF1D; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:15:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-690f7d73a3aso83749b3a.0; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:15:54 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1695233753; x=1695838553; darn=ietf.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mN47ULBY1x6xnzGxt3jchegsYIjuEtN15TMf2i/diW8=; b=Rw7iKBzewVlw+aYgjI20uaGbYQ93aqTviofc3xoAkle8kz1oJY7mhI3XXsZe0lTO3C WY3rmhDLXgtqJdlBbnNLwXbWItCpG8KSARp5GRa2bjT9I0Nx8S07AqiZBxspyBL16HQK 3DqzDYAs+wLJ0rQvQgKQ2c368k6bJkfRxGB+PCqOTVxmcciMPLR3NBEExA7tAr3xYQBs envXqt484ERnqzFvepBo1agnLbHFP4kdKvtRbxTo0V5JQNqrEOvqxB9l6ZbYWG+jGpMC aopxEJtmfpJNym5kpL7gN+llfNkUYI1ltTluVEXk0zBnoQwOiesTELNALcT43VHMGgFj kuDQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1695233753; x=1695838553; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mN47ULBY1x6xnzGxt3jchegsYIjuEtN15TMf2i/diW8=; b=jp+E25oIBJ6TVWrpz9U67Im0AzkOq0p3XtzIOwgrWZuX6sYXVviTasaXamoiCSfvW6 XSik8N+MPJmkRCatC8iud6F+lWUH5sDW+E4QkzlCMwHqsRUSQZwVuRMjjOMGQMYZ0wvh SBX/74lAkLCJpCPj1jTCj9Tsh3l4MGSitli19bA3+6y3Wc1LoAq5GIKx8ck5CrHIlIIV qVlL0CaBX0QoGqa62qVJG6z7wVd4pU8v1iS7W70Ch6XdgadaStwprdQOIAvHpgDufaDT xiLgSpD26+q4N5cxsxKhayn8yHq7YuLkblOGcGAVOiNw3pTLm4LDosB3CSB0onosjeeK l4fw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzhB8AYiaQTgsx/Ui0CEorXQM8RvR624dIZ73FJKS+cZWtekm6f kKWce/r4luGfpOqMP5wgoHk=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGPHAcxSQmvXfLsZfPfU+GRM4E6+y+t0GV8r4Unf4xLq0yq4Z4KRwunKNqeG7uD+YxHjKJjLw==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:78a7:b0:136:e26b:6401 with SMTP id bf39-20020a056a2178a700b00136e26b6401mr3854375pzc.16.1695233753452; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:15:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.0.103] (c-98-42-225-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [98.42.225.165]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m13-20020aa7900d000000b0068fb4f5f38fsm3077321pfo.30.2023.09.20.11.15.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:15:52 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <818b73aa-f8b2-491e-8b6a-4e4b9f5f03b9@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:15:53 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Content-Language: en-US
To: Joe Hildebrand <hildjj@cursive.net>
Cc: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, "abnf-discuss@ietf.org" <abnf-discuss@ietf.org>, json@ietf.org
References: <A9C3993F-D73B-4529-A94B-A6A33589726E@tzi.org> <3c38cda7-98d5-48c8-9b36-ea25f1ab5da4@gmail.com> <360AE449-DFD5-44D7-BB57-18C5DECFB741@cursive.net>
From: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <360AE449-DFD5-44D7-BB57-18C5DECFB741@cursive.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/json/cw3Akw2TJSclzGOV7Dd6zr_dzeI>
Subject: Re: [Json] [abnf-discuss] Are the Core Rules (Appendix B.1 of RFC 5234) always present in an ABNF spec?
X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" <json.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/json/>
List-Post: <mailto:json@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json>, <mailto:json-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 18:15:58 -0000

On 9/20/2023 10:39 AM, Joe Hildebrand wrote:
> and a statement that CHAR is NOT imported, to be absolutely specific. 
> Changing the ABNF itself is neither needed nor desirable, IMO.

To be clear, I suspect it would be /much/ safer to /also/ use the 
different rulename, to avoid cognitive confusion, unless there is a 
strong basis for keeping the same name but different semantics.

d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
dcrocker@gmail.com
mast:@dcrocker@mastodon.social
408.329.0791

Volunteer, Silicon Valley Chapter
Information & Planning Coordinator
American Red Cross
dave.crocker2@redcross.org