Re: [Last-Call] [OPS-DIR] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile-24
Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk> Tue, 02 April 2024 14:57 UTC
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From: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
To: Doug Arnold <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com>
CC: "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile.all@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "tictoc@ietf.org" <tictoc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OPS-DIR] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile-24
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2024 14:57:02 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/97H7xX3jXgCoPIibsk3h5w3YzvY>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] [OPS-DIR] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile-24
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Hi Doug, Thanks for pointing me to the new -25 version. You’ve addressed all the points I made, so I’m now fine for the document to advance, bar one nit... That nit lies with IPv4 and IPv6 operation. You addressed my IPv4 and IPv6 coexistence question by removing the two sentences that mention it in section 5. In practice, would PTP operate over just one or the other, or might messages be duplicated in each protocol? How does the profile look for a dual-stack environment? Best wishes, Tim On 12 Mar 2024, at 10:26, Tim Chown <Tim.Chown=40jisc.ac.uk@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: Thanks Doug, I’ll look at the online diff when it’s posted, for simplicity. I think postings open the Monday of IETF week. Tim On 11 Mar 2024, at 22:19, Doug Arnold <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com> wrote: You don't often get email from doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com<mailto:doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> Hello Tim, Thanks for reviewing draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile-24, and pointing out what is still unclear as well as making other suggestions. I have created a new draft, but submissions are currently closed. I will post the new version when they open. In the meantime here is the new draft in text and pdf formats, in case you are bored. I would love to here if things seem clearer now. Regards, Doug ________________________________ From: Tim Chown via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org<mailto:noreply@ietf.org>> Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 9:33 AM To: ops-dir@ietf.org<mailto:ops-dir@ietf.org> <ops-dir@ietf.org<mailto:ops-dir@ietf.org>> Cc: draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile.all@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile.all@ietf.org> <draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile.all@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile.all@ietf.org>>; last-call@ietf.org<mailto:last-call@ietf.org> <last-call@ietf.org<mailto:last-call@ietf.org>>; tictoc@ietf.org<mailto:tictoc@ietf.org> <tictoc@ietf.org<mailto:tictoc@ietf.org>> Subject: Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile-24 Reviewer: Tim Chown Review result: Has Nits Hi, I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG. These comments were written with the intent of improving the operational aspects of the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be included in AD reviews during the IESG review. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last call comments. The document describes a PTP Profile for use in enterprise networks, be they IPv4 or IPv6. Overall, the document is well written. I would currently say it is Ready with Nits. General comments I’m not familiar enough with PTP to know what a Profile is, or looks like. Section 5 begins with “This PTP Profile SHALL operate only in…” but it’s not obvious to me what part(s) of the document constitute the Profile, and in the extensive glossary of technical terms, ‘Profile’ is not included. Perhaps this could be clearer. The document includes several negative comments about multicast, without citing any RFCs or other references as to why multicast is problematic. This would be helpful. I am familiar for example with RFC 9119 on multicast in wireless networks, and am a co-author of RFC 8115 on deprecation of inter-domain ASM, but the issues hinted at here don’t fall under either of those documents. The third paragraph seems to suggest PTP nodes “throw away 99% of multicast”, but usually one would assume multicast is used because the information sent is of interest to multiple nodes concurrently. The document uses SHALL quite extensively rather than MUST. This is unusual, but in line with RFC 2119. I suspect readers will be more used to seeing MUST. Other comments: Technical terms The section doesn’t clearly differentiate e2e delay measurement mechanism and p2p delay measurement - I assume the timeTransmitter and timeReceiver may not be directly connected, and relay via a Boundary clock? If so, is the Boundary clock not a transmitter and receiver also, or at least the definition implies that? Problem statement I believe you can use hardware timestamping for general NTP, and we are doing so in our own network with a notable improvement in stability. So perhaps here be clearer about why hardware timestamping with PTP is advantageous. Section 5 The text appears a little inconsistent over IPv4 and IPv6 use. It says if both are present, they MUST be treated as separate paths (implying duplication over a path between dual-stack devices), but then a PTP domain MUST use IPv4 or IPv6 but not both. Perhaps be clearer, and also mention how the IP version is selected when communicating devices are dual-stack. It’s also not clear to me why the source address changes at a Transparent clock. I’m sure there’s a good reason, given in another RFC, but it would be useful to have a pointer to that reason included here. Does the address also need to have at least the scope of the e2e communication (more relevant for IPv6)? Section 6 Maybe cite https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-multicast-addresses/ipv6-multicast-addresses.xhtml for the multicast reserved address, and likewise IPv4. I note 182-184 are reserved also for PTP alternates. Section 11 What’s a ‘servo loop’? Best wishes, Tim <draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile-25.txt><draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile-25.pdf> _______________________________________________ OPS-DIR mailing list OPS-DIR@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ops-dir
- [Last-Call] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf… Tim Chown via Datatracker
- Re: [Last-Call] Opsdir last call review of draft-… Doug Arnold
- Re: [Last-Call] Opsdir last call review of draft-… Tim Chown
- Re: [Last-Call] [OPS-DIR] Opsdir last call review… Tim Chown
- Re: [Last-Call] [OPS-DIR] Opsdir last call review… Tim Chown