Re: [Last-Call] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-fast-flooding-07

[[e-mail]]

Barry, Les 
 
> From: Barry Leiba <[e-mail]> 
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 1:05 AM
> 
> Indeed; given the explanation and the fact that it's copied from otherwise existing text, I think Les is right: just leave it as is, and thanks for considering and discussing my question.

Thanks for your comments and feedback.

I'm reverting to the original text:  <t>Length: Indicates the length in octets (1-8) of the Value field. The length SHOULD be the minimum required to send all bits that are set.</t>

Thanks
--Bruno
 
> Barry
> 
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 6:00 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > Bruno -
> >
> > Inline.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 11:17 AM
> > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[e-mail]>; Barry Leiba 
> > > <[e-mail]>
> > > Cc: [e-mail]; 
> > > [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> > > Subject: RE: Secdir last call review of 
> > > draft-ietf-lsr-isis-fast-flooding-07
> > >
> > > Les, Barry,
> > >
> > > > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[e-mail]>
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 4:29 PM
> > > >
> > > > Bruno/Barry -
> > > >
> > > > In regards to:
> > > >
> > > > > > — Section 4.4 —
> > > > > >
> > > > >    > Length: Indicates the length in octets (1-8) of the Value field.  The
> > > > >    > length SHOULD be the minimum required to send all bits that are set.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The SHOULD seems very odd: what would be a good reason to make 
> > > > > > it
> > > > > longer than necessary?  Is there a real reason not to 
> > > > > straightforwardly say, “The length is the minimum required…”?
> > > > >
> > > > > [Bruno] To be honest, that's just verbatim copy from
> > > > >
> > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fda
> > > ta%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cbruno.decraene%40orange.com%7C5f1993bcf219469df
> > > 88808dc454cb26b%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C6384614
> > > 42909928096%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2lu
> > > MzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yciJrdc6kkPK0A
> > > nYxylYSed89YvvvHWOtEAmK%2BHQXxY%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc8919%23name-application-
> > > identifier-
> > > > >
> > > &data=05%7C02%7Cbruno.decraene%40orange.com%7Ced0ce7f4ef6f4adb
> > > a5ee08dc
> > > > >
> > > 4504b6dc%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C63846
> > > 11337566830
> > > > >
> > > 44%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2lu
> > > MzIiLCJBTiI
> > > > >
> > > 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Mxn56QB9LdNA%2
> > > FBh2bAANCIsky
> > > > > Xx1zTir%2FIpTtpRsQbM%3D&reserved=0
> > > > > bit-
> > > > > At the time, I had assumed that copying an already agreed upon 
> > > > > sentence from an RFC was simplifier and safer. Looks like I was 
> > > > > only 50%
> > > right 😉.
> > > > > You have a good point. I can't find a legitimate reason.
> > > > > I used your proposed wording (although my natural inclination 
> > > > > would have used a "MUST")
> > > > >
> > > > [LES:] The reason RFC 8919 uses SHOULD - and why this draft should 
> > > > do the
> > > same - is that sending additional bits unnecessarily is not 
> > > incorrect - it is simply inefficient.
> > >
> > > [Bruno] Agreed that this is only about efficiency. IMO the question 
> > > is whether the sender must be efficient or if there a good reason to allow for inefficiency.
> > >
> > > > If you use "MUST" you are stating that receivers are obligated to 
> > > > reject a
> > > correct advertisement simply because it is unnecessarily long.
> > > > This is unwise and counterproductive.
> > >
> > > [Bruno] In theory, there should be a way to Be conservative in what 
> > > you send and liberal in what you receive.
> > > That would require more text. e.g.
> > > OLD:  The length SHOULD be the minimum required to send all bits 
> > > that are set.
> > > NEW: When sent, the length MUST be set to the minimum required to 
> > > send all bits that are set. When received any length below or equal 
> > > 8 octets MUST be accepted.
> > >
> > > Would this work?
> > [LES:] We have already explicitly stated what the sender SHOULD do - and by using "SHOULD" we indicate that the receiver needs to be "liberal" and accept the advertisement even if it is longer than necessary.
> > I do not see what is being accomplished here.
> >
> > An implementation that is optimal is already following the recommended behavior.
> > Do you think that by saying "MUST" you will get more implementations to be optimal?
> > I doubt it.
> >
> > And you now have to use two "MUST" statements:
> >
> > 1)For the transmitter - to be optimal
> > 2)For the receiver - to be liberal
> >
> > A single SHOULD accomplishes the same thing.
> >
> > I think this is "much ado about nothing" - or at best "much ado about very little".
> >
> >    Les
> >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > --Bruno
> > >
> > >
> > > > As a WG member and co-author I object to this change.
> > > >
> > > > HTH
> > > >
> > >    > Les
> > > >
> > > >
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