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Re: [Last-Call] Bullying and "Fashionable"

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Wed, 05 October 2022 02:47 UTC

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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 19:47:02 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBPFizd-zkD52=95=n-R2Scs3UhUfG0Ph+MRvjv1HO+h1Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Cc: last-call@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Bullying and "Fashionable"
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Can we not have this discussion on this forum, please, which is for Last
Calls.

-Ekr


On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 7:42 PM Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
wrote:

> As an aside here, the problem with bullying behavior is that it can lead
> to sloppiness and to argument by intimidation rather than getting things
> really right.
>
> Having done real politics fairly seriously at one point, I have a pretty
> thick hide. But many people don't and here is the problem, folk who
> experience intimidation often seem to learn that is the way to win
> arguments. And in the process, they end up shutting down arguments rather
> than trying to understand them.
>
> If someone wants to ridicule me because of my work of 20 years back, well,
> the fact people are still using it might make it worth while to ask why.
> And I can probably give a longer list of reasons why they suck than the
> critics and I can also explain why we took the approach we did because the
> alternatives also suck but in different ways.
>
> What really did give me pause for thought however was someone attacking me
> in a different forum for being 'out-dated', in particular holding
> unfashionable views against stream ciphers.
>
> What would happen in the security area if we allowed people to start
> winning arguments according to popularity? What if everyone suddenly
> decided that the fashionable thing was really great and anyone who
> criticized it was clearly stupid and ignorant?
>
> Why we might just end up with, oh I don't know, maybe a $2 trillion ponzi
> scheme about to collapse and take millions of people's savings with it
> because they were told that reinventing money...
>
> --
> last-call mailing list
> last-call@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call
>

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