Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap-incr-00.txt
"Jim Sermersheim" <jimse@novell.com> Sat, 23 October 2004 00:53 UTC
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:48:05 -0600
From: Jim Sermersheim <jimse@novell.com>
To: david_list@boreham.org, Kurt@OpenLDAP.org
Subject: Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap-incr-00.txt
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The application of this problem to Multi-Master Replication (MMR) in general is incorrect. It should be associated with Loosely Consistent Multi-Master Replication (LCMMR). There are mechanisms which could allow for consistent MMR, thus allowing the X.500 service model to be adhered to. Furthermore, there are mechanisms which would allow even implementations of LCMMR to act in accordance with the X.500 service model when required (or conversely -- to make it truly-optional -- allow the transactional and atomicity semantics of the X.500 service model to be optionally ignored). For example, enforce that certain modifications always happen on a predetermined master, but allow that behavior to be optionally overridden. Note that neither of these points means that the incr I-D (or any other I-D) needs to consider the problems introduced by LCMMR. It would be the job of a LCMMR specification to state these problems (and possible solutions). Mostly, I dislike it when messages end up demonizing MMR in a general way, and wanted to clarify the points above. Jim >>> "Kurt D. Zeilenga" <Kurt@OpenLDAP.org> 10/21/04 1:49:11 PM >>> At 10:45 AM 10/21/2004, David Boreham wrote: >>In LDAP, clients may presume server is acting in accordance >>with the X.500 data model. If the server is unable or >>unwilling to do that, then it should not provide service. > >I see, I think you've answered my question: this >feaure should not be implemented by servers that >are participating in a multimaster replication mechanism >with respect to the entry being modified (unless the >server does something unusual to deliver the >required consistency guarantees such as using 2-phase >commit). It's my view that servers which are 'participating in a multimaster replication mechanism' are not LDAP servers. LDAP servers, aside from communicating using LDAP PDUs, act in accordance with X.500. While the servers you refer might communicate using LDAP PDUs, they are not acting in accordance with X.500 and hence, in my view, are not LDAP servers. >It might be worth noting this in the draft, for those >who might ask this question in the future. I think its sufficient to specify that LDAP servers are to act in accordance with X.500. This I-D does so by incorporating [Roadmap]. That said, I think it would be good to note to the community the harm that truly non-optional introduction of MMR might have on existing directory applications, to reiterate to implementors that LDAP servers are to act in accordance with X.500, and encourage those who desire a different service model to design and specify a system that offers it. That system could be based on LDAP, but if so, it should engineered as a truly optional extension to LDAP. (For those who don't grok the terms "truly optional" or "truly non-optional", I refer you to discussion of the "MAY" keyword in RFC 2119). Kurt _______________________________________________ Ldapext mailing list Ldapext@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ldapext _______________________________________________ Ldapext mailing list Ldapext@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ldapext
- [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap-inc… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… Neil Dunbar
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… David Boreham
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… David Boreham
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… David Boreham
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… David Boreham
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… David Boreham
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… David Boreham
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… John McGarvey
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… David Boreham
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… Kurt D. Zeilenga
- Re: [ldapext] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-zeilenga-ldap… Jim Sermersheim