Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ledbat-congestion-08.txt)
"Gengyu WEI" <weigengyu@vip.sina.com> Thu, 20 October 2011 07:20 UTC
Return-Path: <weigengyu@vip.sina.com>
X-Original-To: ledbat@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ledbat@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 798A111E8085 for <ledbat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 00:20:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.293
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.293 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UZgmY1ftcpYL for <ledbat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 00:20:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp-6-98.vip.sina.com (mail3-173.sinamail.sina.com.cn [202.108.3.173]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6492711E80A1 for <ledbat@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 00:19:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from irsmtp-xd5-211.sinamail.sina.com.cn (unknown [10.55.5.211]) by smtp-6-98.vip.sina.com (SINAMAIL) with ESMTP id 848951DDC43 for <ledbat@ietf.org>; Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:19:52 +0800 (CST)
X-Originating-IP: [59.64.159.158]
X-Auth-ID: weigengyu
X-Originating-IP: 59.64.159.158
Received: from unknown (HELO Notebook) ([59.64.159.158]) by irsmtp-xd5-211.sinamail.sina.com.cn with ESMTP; 20 Oct 2011 15:19:51 +0800
Message-ID: <606428E53EC046A09978B6CD863F7559@Notebook>
From: Gengyu WEI <weigengyu@vip.sina.com>
To: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
References: <mailman.154.1319050820.6601.ledbat@ietf.org> <DBB1DC060375D147AC43F310AD987DCC42D5AEBA11@ESESSCMS0366.eemea.ericsson.se>
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:19:49 +0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109
Cc: ledbat@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ledbat-congestion-08.txt)
X-BeenThere: ledbat@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Mailing list of the LEDBAT WG <ledbat.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ledbat>, <mailto:ledbat-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ledbat>
List-Post: <mailto:ledbat@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ledbat-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ledbat>, <mailto:ledbat-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 07:20:02 -0000
Ingemar, I agree. And if he shortlived flows and small bulk of data are supposed, it is significant to increase the window exponentially? Gengyu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ingemar Johansson S" <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> To: <ledbat@ietf.org> Cc: <jana.iyengar@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:21 PM Subject: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ledbat-congestion-08.txt) > Hi > > Change of subject name. > I have no strong opinion on this but I would like to ask how likely it is that LEDBAT is used for shortlived flows in the first place. The CC-algo does not seem to me as the obvious pick of I was looking for instance for fast HTTP request/response times. Given that it seems like minor issue what the INIT_CWND is if the flows are 10minutes in duration or perhaps more. > MIN_CWND is another matter, that should possibly be fixed to relatively small value like 2. > > /Ingemar > >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:14:53 -0700 >> From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> >> To: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk >> Cc: Janardhan Iyengar <jana.iyengar@gmail.com>, ledbat@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [ledbat] New Version Notification for >> draft-ietf-ledbat-congestion-08.txt >> Message-ID: <4E9F058D.4040909@isi.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Hi, Gorry, >> >> I agree with your logic, but it suggests INIT_CWND and >> MIN_CWND should be 2 - those are both clearly safe, clearly >> smaller than the current deployed base, and would not >> increase to track TCP's increases. >> >> Joe >> >> On 10/19/2011 12:26 AM, Gorry Fairhurst wrote: >> > On 18/10/2011 20:27, Joe Touch wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10/18/2011 8:29 AM, David Ros wrote: >> >> ... >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> >> >>> Sorry if I'm getting this totally wrong, but: is it really >> >>> *necessary* >> >>> that LEDBAT's INIT_CWND be *smaller* than TCP's? As far as I >> >>> understand, the point of LEDBAT is to be >> less-than-best-effort over >> >>> (relatively) long timescales, or at least over time scales longer >> >>> than one (initial) RTT. And just starting up as TCP won't make it >> >>> *more* aggressive than TCP. Is this correct?? >> >> >> >> No, but it could make it a lot like TCP if the offered load is in >> >> short bursts. If that's not the intent, then the INIT_CWND >> needs to >> >> be smaller than TCP's. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> >> > >> > I think INIT_CWND should not be significantly bigger than >> *deployed* >> > TCP INIT_CWND. (It may of course be desirable to be smaller or the >> > same, and that would benefit in the way Joe suggested). >> > >> > When I suggested "4" could be OK, this was only 1 larger >> than current >> > usage for a 1500B MTU, and equivalent for some smaller MTU. >> That to me >> > is not "significantly bigger". It would seem OK, because if this >> > induced congestion LEDBAT would react within INIT_CWND >> segments in a >> > conservative way. >> > >> > If we care about LEDBAT being conservative compared to other TCP >> > sessions, then I really think we should not track future >> new proposals >> > to raise INIT_CWND. I suggest this would have side effects: >> > >> > - It could make LEDBAT more aggressive than *deployed* TCP >> > implementations, that I think would be bad. >> > >> > - It may require LEDBAT to implement additional algorithms >> to ensure >> > it is conservative when the larger INIT_CWND induces congestion. >> > Addressing this would likely add complexity to LEDBAT and make it >> > dependent on these TCP updates (if any). >> > >> > I think a larger INIT_CWND (e.g. by tracking any evolution of TCP's >> > INIT_CWND) is unwarranted if the goal is for LEDBAT to target bulk >> > less-than-best-effort use. I cannot see the case yet for a LEDBAT >> > INIT-CWND beyond 4. Raising this could indeed save an RTT >> at the start >> > of a LEDBAT flow, but this would be at the expense of making it >> > (slightly) more aggressive than presently deployed TCP. This seems >> > undesirable. >> > >> > I also suggested that MIN_CWND should similarly be fixed to >> a small number. >> > >> > Gorry >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ledbat mailing list >> ledbat@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ledbat >> >> >> End of ledbat Digest, Vol 33, Issue 9 >> ************************************* >> > _______________________________________________ > ledbat mailing list > ledbat@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ledbat >
- [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New Vers… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New … Gengyu WEI
- Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New … David Ros
- Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New … Joe Touch
- Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New … Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New … David Ros
- Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New … Joe Touch
- Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New … Joe Touch
- Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New … Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [ledbat] INIT_CWND and MIN_CWND (WAS Re: New … Mirja Kuehlewind