Re: [lisp] Current changes for draft-ietf-lisp-rfc6830bis-08

Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> Mon, 08 January 2018 18:23 UTC

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From: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2018 10:22:57 -0800
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To: Damien Saucez <damien.saucez@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lisp] Current changes for draft-ietf-lisp-rfc6830bis-08
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Do you think it is okay to capture the changes we have made and agreed upon so far so we can submit -08 and wait for other WG members to comment on this issue?

What you are suggesting is a lot change that what was previously agreed upon. No one was really in favor of having a third document (your OAM reference below (3)). 

Also the chairs didn’t suggest any changes, it was Luigi (acting as a document shepherd). I am not sure the same comment came from Joel, either publicly or privately.

Dino

> On Jan 8, 2018, at 9:16 AM, Damien Saucez <damien.saucez@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Dino, The List,
> 
> That’s pretty cool to see activity around the document however I am not sure the proposed
> changes are really addressing the structural problem of the document.
> 
> The current document is a mix between data-plane, control-plane, and operation questions.
> 
> The chairs proposition of re-balancing the text between 30bis, 33bis and an OAM documents
> is great. It would allow people to go directly to the point they are interested in. 
> 
> 1. What goes on the wire: 30bis
> 2. Signalling procedures: 33bis
> 3. Implementation details, management, and troubleshooting: OAM.
> 
> So it would mean that in 30bis it would just be all what is strictly needed to allow
> inter-operability between xTRs, so at the end only packet format and how to understand
> fields should be there. In this case, we can abstract the xTR as just a database that
> stores mapping, how mapping are managed in this database is an implementation
> question that is independent of the protocol itself.
> 
> For 33bis, it would just be the format of signalling messages and how to interpret
> them, when a signal is expected to be triggered.
> 
> Finally, in OAM it would be how to implement and manage a LISP system that is
> constituted of the LISP control-plane proposed in 33bis and the LISP data-plane in
> 30bis.
> 
> To say it clearly: remove from 30bis and 33bis all what is just the reflect of one
> implementation. Normally these two document should have only what is strictly
> necessary for people to implement (the way THEY want) a system that would
> Inter-operate with the others. 
> 
> If we look at OpenLISP and its control-plane and the deployment of LISP-Lab
> that we use in production daily, we can see that the data plane and control plane
> have been implemented independently (and by different teams and even
> companies) and what we can say is that a large fraction of the text in 60bis
> has not been used at all for implementing the data-plane, while, on the contrary
> we had to massively read/use text from 30bis to be able to implement the
> control-plane. Finally, people that deployed LISP-Lab had to take content
> from both 30bis and 33bis to be able to have a working environment. That
> demonstrates that the separation is not done properly as normally people 
> in charge of deploying a network should not have to read the data-plane
> specs, or people implementing a control-plane should not have to read 
> data-plane specifications.
> 
> I think the proposition of moving text that the chairs proposed is very
> reasonable and greatly improve the quality of the specifications and therefore
> reduce the risk of misinterpretation and bugs while implementing the protocolS
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Damien Saucez 
> 
>> On 4 Jan 2018, at 18:00, Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Is the working group okay with me submitting these changes? This was the latest update from email before the year ended. I have made most of the changes that Luigi suggested or requested.
>> 
>> Dino
>> 
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