Re: [lisp] [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas)

Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> Wed, 11 October 2017 19:34 UTC

Return-Path: <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884C713314B for <lisp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:34:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5PC_Tb6tqNIW for <lisp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70C231321DC for <lisp@ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from xsmtp03.mail2web.com ([168.144.250.223]) by mx36.antispamcloud.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1e2Mlu-0004by-TU for lisp@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 21:34:27 +0200
Received: from [10.5.2.15] (helo=xmail05.myhosting.com) by xsmtp03.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1e2Mlt-0008Fa-84 for lisp@ietf.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2017 15:34:25 -0400
Received: (qmail 17983 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2017 19:34:22 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.103]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.56.42.26]) (envelope-sender <huitema@huitema.net>) by xmail05.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for <ietf@ietf.org>; 11 Oct 2017 19:34:21 -0000
To: Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "ideas@ietf.org" <ideas@ietf.org>, "lisp@ietf.org list" <lisp@ietf.org>, Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <150670160872.14128.2758037992338326085.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <778d5504-ba4f-d418-7b20-356353bb0fb2@cs.tcd.ie> <CAMm+Lwg61PGrcmu=-e8ciD6Q+XmEaWWDys4g2M657VOjWmaGcg@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S370-TuoUicWep5vV2NjLPS4d-HP1qVxW_nGrxhBLw6Eug@mail.gmail.com> <8kd5pq.oxb4pv.rtlo8t-qmf@mercury.scss.tcd.ie> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EAA7204@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <dd2c3bd5-dd37-109b-2e81-0327db4daa09@cs.tcd.ie> <0BA14206-DC82-49EF-A625-B2425FA396F6@gmail.com> <1f254140-1340-6c7d-9c73-e7137562c685@gmail.com> <fa644cc2-161f-8884-3445-2b50d2c2ad23@htt-consult.com> <cf2ca920-f2d2-b65e-05eb-ebe3c30b76d1@huitema.net> <CAG-CQxrdS9L+2+bN=1NcPGuztn4U4OwSWUiNaVcS9Bsm2mtpfA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Message-ID: <b18459d1-7ce1-b83d-787d-9066267d584b@huitema.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:34:19 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAG-CQxrdS9L+2+bN=1NcPGuztn4U4OwSWUiNaVcS9Bsm2mtpfA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E14CE32255CE1CCBF53D2ED8"
Content-Language: en-US
X-Originating-IP: 168.144.250.223
X-SpamExperts-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-SpamExperts-Username: 168.144.250.0/24
Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=168.144.250.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: ham
X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.09)
X-Recommended-Action: accept
X-Filter-ID: EX5BVjFpneJeBchSMxfU5q5W2ClgRMV6odV0YRJ7ZtMXv9krsgRhBn0ayn6qsUc7wVs6Zcv/r9lN 2vpy9awzD7gNzB/4Jkrw1eDLcif59fvAIVTk7VPtA6HQN76lpw0LB98yDTitFWvbHwz9vKZpm/D1 Ad4OAlzgsEH8ABk9OXtfZdf1siwYNJirk4ABKayRZsQEbaxxISMHgJxrdMdSS+C+me6dA6yBk+me OMe0W20IwpnDW1iuevuskcdSkQBqqDYcAbb25yfA/Qzc5alGOhdG5bOwa1rOgT+89+/XFrGt2tce crpXRY6fm8RXptyzavERpop5LF7RavHozgbn9XzprFRbpFQTOcEGeQOY3IcDlgJpEbxunV7tCPNi PQvHQpVRoYcix47lJTuKsG8TgnDHFRDF834rtLc6Wv9Yj+vBPX9bzGJi0ycLbiOUDEySIK/1NH5T HMtlYvyHAYGOGheVSH7cGoIH3Vd41lbD31Xq4ax6KvrI/nhOyr4XmBA0QaRU5G7TB9RBnrQ7zv+k CvO5Y8nigbyGzriPU+XfAXEmd1lHR6R3AgRdwKMVrLe2x6JvzKixj8PC+OqalCFkmpH+vpUDIZeJ XjrpEEsmd+8wbu9lcViFVxDhGp2PwufGcyNBJprCgmabT8JgPqpM5mTFkJCfQx95lvhVaK1R9QMi gxjVx5rzYZiZLuq1IKA/qpuyeONa9/BCaiG5sAGSAVz1pRXWhjh9fdbl44I0Df0tN9eq0V0hlrWD EiOHLhiB8jSoYz6mw6iMTDK1bQzS5x3h1vgDbEdmhrg3iVBpdRZRb8Vdsy5LZaUHXrX9gYVqGpIO PepTCxFMvIavjx/iA3YOJbgNLT0Ix6mdJEErnNhWBb39uS1TjWG2Inx+Ts2QvrhVVD6SNHfaCiIW OOQAkvVDEoFOK6EAWKQ3WFIxRUtYANHDTJAVnZcGvok0a1Vj
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine5.antispamcloud.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lisp/msLYsiBqRID_AO-ce70436dcddA>
Subject: Re: [lisp] [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas)
X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol <lisp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/lisp>, <mailto:lisp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/lisp/>
List-Post: <mailto:lisp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:lisp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp>, <mailto:lisp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 19:34:31 -0000

On 10/11/2017 10:32 AM, Padma Pillay-Esnault wrote:

>     but you do not need a reference to a permanent identity for that
>     -- systems similar to CGA would work just fine.
>
>  
>
> The identity of the device is just adding a lever of identifier which
> effectively allows authentication to modify the identifiers used by
> that device but also what the users of these identifiers can look up.
> If we had used "user of identifier" it would have been misconstrued
> for humans. So damn if you do and damn if you don't ... 
>
> We are open for discussions anytime.
>

Some thing you should be hearing is that "long term identity of device"
has almost the same privacy properties as "long term identity of the
device's owner". You may think that identifying a random piece of
hardware is no big deal, but it turns out that the network activity and
network locations of that piece of hardware can be associated to those
of its human owner. So you need the same kind of protection for these
device identifiers as for human identifiers.

-- 
Christian Huitema