IETF Logo Mail Archive

[mailmaint] Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-mailmaint-imap-objectid-bis-06.txt

Phillip Tao <ptao@apple.com> Wed, 22 July 2026 22:24 UTC

Return-Path: <ptao@apple.com>
X-Original-To: mailmaint@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: mailmaint@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE5B11CC8C1C for <mailmaint@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 15:24:41 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1784759081; bh=Rn7uMIqAoB4Lg86HxCa9kFMdKnnooO5QNYnITZl7FTI=; h=Subject:From:In-reply-to:Date:Cc:References:To; b=Z/3ytdtkWoSoWOVf2RwIzz8XDPufH4abjIPBOl0Z5V7w/AmihQJkirXxdQ4qfpIcr tgEh3LPbEPTvxDyIhZfyGVUd2wQHW20VF63I+YlGyu549IkK8YEngz5AfqIXzhYXy6 6Ye3W+g5XSm7kMu70RvHRHwmxXQOZgVJrgMV3PN0=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.796
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UtlC4bL7imlW for <mailmaint@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 15:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from hfd-mx01.apple.com (hfd-mx01.apple.com [17.132.100.0]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D1ED11CC8C11 for <mailmaint@ietf.org>; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 15:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from vb11p01nt-mtap01.apple.com (vb11p01nt-mtap01.ise.apple.com [100.84.69.178]) by am11p01nt-mxp01.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.28.20250821 64bit (built Aug 21 2025)) with ESMTPS id <0TIL29K7WKX33O00@am11p01nt-mxp01.apple.com> for mailmaint@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 22:24:39 +0000 (GMT)
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1143,Hydra:6.1.134,FMLib:17.12.100.49 definitions=2026-07-22_05,2026-07-22_02,2025-10-01_01
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=cc : content-transfer-encoding : content-type : date : from : in-reply-to : message-id : mime-version : references : subject : to; s=20180706; bh=Rn7uMIqAoB4Lg86HxCa9kFMdKnnooO5QNYnITZl7FTI=; b=FTI+mc1ha8hHIg+uSkUtAYvdOHGDulj/XbP5BLlOP71sCj+pSRMG9L8aYyaJGZPvNnTs ClY2MtevxLCKiGc8yffZhOt2QQ82ntOf18NWXg9eH5GYffU7emS/5YmLs3fm4uazNN+Q oK3YWq4wqIGty4pHIjQsgbz20T2HpAitrT2LlG8rGve+api6UYV1dCGnh0qvF2dHX1Xo r1hwbDL/bcRiJlqivkdwYeu319CW8nDOXydCZpkt+xA4UloZCYQdMwfGv92GQ2iTumpM 0lw/BzKjPL94Qfvwz07CPVFWqmUNuRgTvUbhPtk/96NyO3bqPktoMdICbeqJyjyRRUNz wg==
Received: from am11p01nt-mmpp01.apple.com (am11p01nt-mmpp01.ise.apple.com [100.85.69.136]) by vb11p01nt-mtap01.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.28.20250821 64bit (built Aug 21 2025)) with ESMTPS id <0TIL2FICHKX3SS00@vb11p01nt-mtap01.apple.com>; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 22:24:39 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from process_milters-daemon.am11p01nt-mmpp01.apple.com by am11p01nt-mmpp01.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.28.20260513 64bit (built May 13 2026)) id <0TIL15Q00KX2RX00@am11p01nt-mmpp01.apple.com>; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 22:24:39 +0000 (GMT)
X-Va-A:
X-Va-T-CD: 1d70b35fe16f0cb95be4f1b3bbc36b98
X-Va-E-CD: 52d661f5668893fd3ba5bf061a2a85a3
X-Va-R-CD: f4ac51ea5266fdc2d95d227bd5d3c2c4
X-Va-ID: ecb4f14c-db42-4552-9e7e-268ddac4448e
X-Va-CD: 0
X-V-A:
X-V-T-CD: 1d70b35fe16f0cb95be4f1b3bbc36b98
X-V-E-CD: 52d661f5668893fd3ba5bf061a2a85a3
X-V-R-CD: f4ac51ea5266fdc2d95d227bd5d3c2c4
X-V-ID: 6da0d652-3f1f-4ab1-bad2-5077b3bca77b
X-V-CD: 0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1143,Hydra:6.1.134,FMLib:17.12.100.49 definitions=2026-07-22_05,2026-07-22_02,2025-10-01_01
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([10.106.43.90]) by am11p01nt-mmpp01.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.28.20260513 64bit (built May 13 2026)) with ESMTPSA id <0TIL15P01KX1R900@am11p01nt-mmpp01.apple.com>; Wed, 22 Jul 2026 22:24:38 +0000 (GMT)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(9999\))
From: Phillip Tao <ptao@apple.com>
In-reply-to: <fc5e51f1971aa93b712bd5f1c8c047305f3a22a2@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2026 00:24:36 +0200
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Message-id: <305A290D-DE7B-46A3-A5A8-A12488F6FA41@apple.com>
References: <178473320151.543100.13468980420849769338@dt-datatracker-d4d6ff9d9-fsx7d> <D5CFDD7D-376A-4DEB-9195-E178E2A14F8C@apple.com> <C6BBF02F-66F4-4FB9-B96D-FA4A6CF82EBB@apple.com> <fc5e51f1971aa93b712bd5f1c8c047305f3a22a2@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
To: Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.9999)
Message-ID-Hash: DVEIISM3GEEOL6XA7RI5BMATHOZIMOAO
X-Message-ID-Hash: DVEIISM3GEEOL6XA7RI5BMATHOZIMOAO
X-MailFrom: ptao@apple.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: mailmaint@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [mailmaint] Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-mailmaint-imap-objectid-bis-06.txt
List-Id: Mail Maintenance <mailmaint.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mailmaint/BC0MNc-JH2DEaJsKZ2ptHboli34>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mailmaint>
List-Help: <mailto:mailmaint-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:mailmaint-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:mailmaint@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:mailmaint-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:mailmaint-leave@ietf.org>

Maybe such a SELECT should return an untagged LIST response with an OLDNAME? That would match the guidance in RFC 9051 for CREATE/RENAME commands when the supplied name differs from the resultant name on the server.

But a tangent from Arnt's tangent: It seems like section 7.1 uses OLDNAME differently from how RFC 9051 defines OLDNAME's usage? As far as I understand, in RFC 9051, OLDNAME is in the context of the execution of a specific command, not a persistent property of a mailbox after rename? Perhaps I'm missing some context here, though.

- Phillip

> On Jul 22, 2026, at 10:35 PM, Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I had a stray thought after the session. Suppose you have a client that shows a list of folders, and the user clicks one, and the client issues an ID-studded SELECT, and the folder selected is one that's been renamed since the client issued its LIST.
> 
> In that case, what prevents the client from showing the name that was selected as the folder name, and not learn the newly correct name until later, if ever?
> 
> Arnt
> 
> -- 
> mailmaint mailing list -- mailmaint@ietf.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to mailmaint-leave@ietf.org

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status