Re: [manet] Re: IPR issue for TBRPF
ogier@erg.sri.com Thu, 02 May 2002 18:14 UTC
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To: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
cc: ogier@erg.sri.com, manet@ietf.org
Reply-To: ogier@erg.sri.com
From: ogier@erg.sri.com
Subject: Re: [manet] Re: IPR issue for TBRPF
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:58:41 PDT." <5.1.0.14.2.20020429125125.01af1910@mira-sjcm-4.cisco.com>
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 10:42:22 -0700
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Fred, > My observation is my own, nobody else's, but it comes from someone > who has been watching the IETF for a *long* time. If you want to > guarantee a > scramble, say the word "patent", and if you want to > guarantee that the IETF > will proceed in a direction only under > duress, apply for one. Let me quote a sentence from "A Novice's Guide to the IETF" http://www.imc.org/novice-ietf.html "Sometimes, the patent holder is generous and promises to give all implementors of a standard a royalty-free license to the patent, thereby making it almost as easy to implement as it would have been if no patent existed." That is exactly what SRI is doing. Our IPR statement contains the following sentence: "If SRI's submission (or portions thereof) is accepted and becomes part of the IETF standard, then SRI will grant any party a royalty-free license under such patents for both commercial and non-commercial uses, to the extent necessary for compliance with the standard." Also note that ISATAP (in the NGTRANS WG) has exactly the same IPR statement as TBRPF: http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/ISI-NGTRANS.txt This issue has been discussed previously on this list, e.g., see Ken Peirce's message dated 12/13/01. Also, in a recent email from Ken to you (Ken, you can chime in if you want), he pointed out that the patent (if awarded) is actually a *bonus* to TBRPF implementors, since SRI will give all implementors a royalty-free license if TBRPF becomes a standard. As Ken noted (and our lawyer agrees), in addition to guaranteeing that TBRPF will be unencumbered, it also provides some protection to TBRPF implementors from 3rd party infringement lawsuits. In your response to Ken, you stated that it is very unlikely that our lawyers will let us concede our rights to TBPRF. This is not true. In fact our lawyers are the ones who wrote the IPR statement. Our lawyers are currently updating the IPR statement to clarify that anyone can implement TBRPF for non-commercial research purposes while TBRPF is being considered by the IETF, as requested by Joe Macker. (The updated statement will be submitted to the IETF in a few days.) Now, if OLSR and TBRPF turn out to be equally good protocols for proactive routing in MANETs, then it would make sense to select the one that has no IPRs. But *so far*, TBRPF has outperformed OLSR significantly in our simulations (and has other advantages that I have previously discussed). These simulations are based on the OLSR code that is available from the INRIA web site, which has been outdated for several months (according to Clausen's message dated 11/29/01), so I hope that newer OLSR code will be available soon. Richard P.S. For reference, here is the excerpt from draft-baker-manet-review-01.txt that I think is unfair: "SRI has aggressively marketed TBRPF and its IPRs to the working group. The fact that a patent has been applied for on certain aspects is, however, severely limiting politically. If there is any way in which the IETF is absolutely predictable, it is that when confronted with a choice between a proposal encumbered with IPR issues and an unencumbered proposal, it will choose the unencumbered one." _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
- [manet] IPR issue for TBRPF ogier
- [manet] Re: IPR issue for TBRPF Fred Baker
- Re: [manet] Re: IPR issue for TBRPF ogier
- Re: [manet] Re: IPR issue for TBRPF Pekka Savola
- Re: [manet] Re: IPR issue for TBRPF ogier
- [manet] Re: IPR issue for TBRPF ogier