Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00
Yakov Shafranovich <yakov@shaftek.org> Wed, 27 January 2010 01:36 UTC
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From: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov@shaftek.org>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:35:59 -0500
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To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com>
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Subject: Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00
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Just wanted to let you guys know that I have a repository of all the past drafts and diffs between versions here: http://www.shaftek.org/publications/drafts/abuse-report/ I added this version as well. Yakov On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy <msk@cloudmark.com> wrote: > As you can see I’ve posted the revised draft, i.e. > draft-shafranovich-feedback-report with the recently discussed > modifications, as draft-ietf-marf-base-00. > > > > We have a deliverable of June to submit this to the IESG for approval. > Please review it and submit any feedback to this list. If it’s quiet, we > can start a working group last call on it at our planned working group > meeting at the next IETF general meeting in Anaheim, and get that one off > our list early. > > > > -MSK > > > > _______________________________________________ > marf mailing list > marf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/marf > > Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.26]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0QLCeq2016221 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:12:45 -0800 Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so1105160eyd.33 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:12:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.88.202 with SMTP id a52mr3461492wef.101.1264540359252; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:12:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6c9fcc2a1001261233h25f19645i1720ed679b80851a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6c9fcc2a1001261233h25f19645i1720ed679b80851a@mail.gmail.com> From: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov@shaftek.org> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:12:19 -0500 Message-ID: <501c18e01001261312w770c8ac3w2467989b8359c70b@mail.gmail.com> To: barryleiba@computer.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10334/Tue Jan 26 06:23:11 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:12:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org, marf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [feedback-report] [marf] MARF working group is chartered X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:12:46 -0000 On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Barry Leiba <barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com> wrote: > > I suggest that the first order of business is to approve the next > version of draft-shafranovich-feedback-report-08 as > draft-ietf-marf-feedback-report-00, the first working group document. > Comments, yea or nay? > I believe that Murray had a later draft that had significant changes. Should we use that instead? Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.35]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0QL8HVv015713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits8 verifyúIL) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:08:22 -0800 Received: from EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.74]) by malice.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.71]) with mapi; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:37:43 -0800 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> To: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:37:43 -0800 Thread-Topic: WG Action: Messaging Abuse Reporting Format (marf) Thread-Index: Acqexl2crC8WhjY6Rt2NWHkuOLOuwQAABniA Message-ID: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F6ED8@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10334/Tue Jan 26 06:23:11 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:30:33 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:08:22 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0QL8HVv015713 Subject: [feedback-report] FW: WG Action: Messaging Abuse Reporting Format (marf) X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:08:22 -0000 Folks, The IETF has officially created the working group to advance the work done here to date. This list will continue to exist, but discussions specifically about the working group's efforts need to take place on the official working group's list. Please be sure to subscribe over there if you want to participate in that work, if you haven't already. -----Original Message----- From: IESG Secretary [mailto:iesg-secretary@ietf.org] Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:30 PM To: ietf-announce@ietf.org Cc: Murray S. Kucherawy; barryleiba@computer.org; marf@ietf.org Subject: WG Action: Messaging Abuse Reporting Format (marf) A new IETF working group has been formed in the Applications Area. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. Messaging Abuse Reporting Format (marf) --------------------------------------------------- Current Status: Active Working Group Chairs: Murray S. Kucherawy (msk@cloudmark.com) Barry Leiba (barryleiba@computer.org) Applications Area Directors: Lisa Dusseault (lisa.dusseault@gmail.com) Alexey Melnikov (alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Applications Area Advisor: Alexey Melnikov (alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Mailing Lists: General Discussion: marf@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/marf Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/marf/ Description of Working Group: Messaging anti-abuse operations between independent services often requires sending reports on observed fraud, spam, virus or other abuse activity. A standardized report format enables automated processing. The Abuse Reporting Format (ARF) specification has gained sufficient popularity to warrant formal codification, to ensure and encourage future interoperability with new implementations. The primary function of this working group will be to solicit review and refinement of the existing specification. A report format is amenable to processing by humans or software, with the latter requiring the format to be standardized, to permit interoperability between automated services, particularly without prior arrangement. ARF was developed as a community effort within the context of a messaging trade organization independent of the IETF (MAAWG, http://www.maawg.org), and uses a format similar to a Delivery Status Notification (DSN, RFC3464) to report fraud, spam, viruses or other abusive activity in the email system. ARF as initially defined is already in widespread use at large ISPs, so interoperability can be demonstrated. Some tools already exist for processing ARF messages, a few of which are open source. In order to preserve the installed base, the working group will make the minimum changes necessary to the existing specification and will seek to have backward compatibility. Furthermore, some extensions to the current proposal are of interest to the community, such as the means for an operator to advertise an email address to which abuse reports using ARF should be sent. The working group will take on the task of considering and specifying such a mechanism. Existing ARF usage employs draft-shafranovich-feedback-report-08, which will provide the working group's starting point. The working group should consider such factors as: * implementation experience * ability to achieve broad implementation and interoperability * existing uses of ARF * internationalization * ability to address a wider range of uses Thus, the working group's specific tasks are as follows: 1) The group will first produce a Proposed Standard track specification of ARF. This will document current use, removing any portions that are not implemented and/or not required for a minimum implementation (these may be considered for extensions at some later date if demand warrants). This will include not only the format of an ARF message, but must also include appropriate documentation of security considerations and creation of IANA registries for elements of ARF to support future extensions, as well as informational sections conveying current best practices. 2) The group will produce an informational document detailing guidelines for deploying and using ARF, including descriptions of current practices and their rationales. 3) The group will specify the integration of ARF into DKIM-aware environments, with draft-kucherawy-dkim-reporting-06 as its input. It contains extensions to DKIM that are related to ARF as a means of reporting DKIM-related failures which include phishing ("fraud") and as such are relevant to the ARF effort. The group will produce Proposed Standard track specification for these ARF and DKIM extensions. 4) The group will finally consider a means for publishing the address to which ARF reports should be sent. Not all ARF participants wish to use abuse@(domain), which is the current standard (RFC2142), as the place to send automated ARF-formatted reports. The group will either conclude that the industry should continue to use this de facto standard (and thus no specification is appropriate), or will produce a Proposed Standard track document identifying the means by which that address should be advertised. The group may consider re-chartering to cover related work, including consideration of items removed since earlier versions of ARF as possible extensions, once these deliverables have been achieved. The working group is aware of related activities in other SDOs, namely the Open Mobile Alliance (http://www.openmobilealliance.org) "MWG-SpamRep" effort and a similar as-yet-unnamed effort inside the GSM Alliance (GSMA, http://www.gsm.org). The working group will coordinate efforts with those groups, and with MAAWG, as required. Goals and Milestones: Jun 2010 Submit ARF specification for IETF approval Sep 2010 Submit ARF guidelines document for IETF approval Mar 2011 Submit DKIM reporting specification for IETF approval Sep 2011 Submit ARF address advertising specification for IETF approval Received: from mail-fx0-f213.google.com (mail-fx0-f213.google.com [209.85.220.213]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0QKX2mA012506 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:33:07 -0800 Authentication-Results: sbh17.songbird.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.i=@gmail.com Received: by fxm5 with SMTP id 5so4957785fxm.11 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:33:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.5.207 with SMTP id 15mr1514423faw.26.1264537980505; Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:33:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:33:00 -0500 Message-ID: <6c9fcc2a1001261233h25f19645i1720ed679b80851a@mail.gmail.com> From: Barry Leiba <barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com> To: marf@ietf.org, abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10334/Tue Jan 26 06:23:11 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:33:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [feedback-report] MARF working group is chartered X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: barryleiba@computer.org List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:33:08 -0000 The MARF working group is now officially chartered: http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/marf-charter.html Murray and I are chairs, and we have requested a 1.5-hour meeting slot at IETF 77 in Anaheim. You should be able to contact the chairs through the tools alias, though it's possible that it will take a little longer for it to work: <marf-chairs@tools.ietf.org> Please use the IETF marf mailing list, <marf@ietf.org>, for all working group correspondence. If there's a discussion that the chairs think is sufficiently off topic or out of scope that we'd like it not to be there, you can bring it back to the list at mipassoc. Please subscribe to the marf list if you plan to participate in the working group. I suggest that the first order of business is to approve the next version of draft-shafranovich-feedback-report-08 as draft-ietf-marf-feedback-report-00, the first working group document. Comments, yea or nay? -- Barry Leiba, marf working group chair Received: from [192.168.1.6] (adsl-68-122-70-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.122.70.87]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0QInrLb005383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits%6 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:49:58 -0800 Message-ID: <4B5F394E.3070109@bbiw.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:49:50 -0800 From: Dave CROCKER <dcrocker@bbiw.net> Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F68E0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F68E0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10334/Tue Jan 26 06:23:11 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:49:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: "abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org" <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:49:59 -0000 On 1/21/2010 9:04 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >> From: Dave CROCKER ... >> I've received notice that the mailing list is to be moved, to be hosted at >> the IETF. ... > Speaking from the MAAWG side of things, I don't see a reason that the list > has to be moved. This list was created long before the IETF had any > particular interest in ARF, and there's no rule anyplace that says there can > only be one list on a particular topic. So the two lists can coexist, Barry's concern about divergent discussion, if there are two lists, is well-taken. Still, efforts often have multiple lists, covering complementary issues. Certainly it's good for something that's standardized to have a broader pre- and post- standards discussion forum, concerning requirements, deployment, experiences, etc. So it really becomes more of a courtesy to the standards list, to supply ana archive of earlier discussions. At this point, I'm thinking of it more as a matter of helping to establish context than to 'move' the list. Bad things might come of this, but I doubt any side-effects will be all /that/ bad. So I'm in the process of forwarding an archive to the IETF. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net Received: from smtp.patriot.net (smtp.patriot.net [209.249.176.77]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0O4BlbF004349 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Sat, 23 Jan 2010 20:11:52 -0800 Received: from ECS35455305 (core-dc-1-56.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net [69.72.26.56]) (Authenticated sender: shmuel@patriot.net) by smtp.patriot.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E6AF580A9 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:09:12 -0500 (EST) From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <shmuel+abuse-feedback-report@patriot.net> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:19:20 -0500 To: "abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org" <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> In-Reply-To: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> Organization: Atid/2 X-CompuServe-Customer: Yes X-Coriate: Mark Griffith X-Punge: Micro$oft X-Terminate: SPA(GIS) X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v3.00.11.18 BETA/60 Message-Id: <20100124030913.08E6AF580A9@smtp.patriot.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10327/Fri Jan 22 13:52:14 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:52:48 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Sat, 23 Jan 2010 20:11:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 04:11:52 -0000 In <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net>, on 01/21/2010 at 06:50 AM, Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net> said: >The simplest approach would be for me to lock the list from postings >until the archive is moved to the new list and then announce the new >list, for everyone to subscribe to. I believe that what is critical is to publish the switchover date. If you lock the old list before the switchover, that date should also be announced ahead of time. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2 <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) Received: from web5001.biz.mail.in2.yahoo.com (web5001.biz.mail.in2.yahoo.com [203.104.17.241]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o0MJotEO003219 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:51:01 -0800 Received: (qmail 93514 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jan 2010 18:50:52 -0000 Message-ID: <269514.86836.qm@web5001.biz.mail.in2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 62n6PUAVM1mPvKr8IyyoR9CusvPWbD35zq4yeDMlIBrhfVBMpXxWvogGEI3IAyEwKA7yX4WNYq5gmHoY0t6sDjPey3Hzjg3khXI3r5XdDG5X8UXSzgVQe_W0pzCGDfOJxr6A8_lYEpFeU1fRGJUbnlhvrBEUBqSRbwp42qmd0EZjVyRmX9r7T2xJ3Ivc3XFxHu2f0E5l1H8320vN3y.ogs_Z08ZL5cHQg8Y14O_IBz5AC4w8wQMX_dXGrSzoHg-- Received: from [123.50.178.88] by web5001.biz.mail.in2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:20:52 IST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:20:52 +0530 (IST) From: Atmaram Red <atmaram@redhatinfotech.com> To: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10325/Fri Jan 22 07:00:57 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 01:00:02 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:51:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [feedback-report] (no subject) X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:51:02 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.17] (ppp-67-124-89-225.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.89.225]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0MImlAd030496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits%6 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:48:52 -0800 Message-ID: <4B59F30A.4050901@dcrocker.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:48:42 -0800 From: Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net> Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F69D2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1001212039140.26519@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F6A88@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F6A88@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10325/Fri Jan 22 07:00:57 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:48:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:48:52 -0000 On 1/22/2010 9:33 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >>> That appears to be discussing the "MARF" protocol. >> >> I hope the plan is that MARF is the WG, ARF is still the protocol. > > That's my current belief. You think the IESG objects only to the name of the wg being generic, but won't mind having the protocol name be "too" generic? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net Received: from [192.168.1.17] (ppp-67-124-89-225.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.89.225]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0MIlbiJ030390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits%6 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:47:42 -0800 Message-ID: <4B59F2C4.4080209@dcrocker.net> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:47:32 -0800 From: Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net> Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Atkins <steve@word-to-the-wise.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F69D2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> In-Reply-To: <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10325/Fri Jan 22 07:00:57 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:47:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:47:43 -0000 On 1/21/2010 4:51 PM, Steve Atkins wrote: > That appears to be discussing the "MARF" protocol. > > That isn't an arbitrary name change that'll discard existing mindshare and > spread confusion amongst users about the difference between "ARF" and "MARF", > is it? Probably. But it's a common IETF action, where SSL -> TLS is one of the more visible examples. With luck, we can merely suggest that MARF is pronounced with a silent M... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net Received: from m.wordtothewise.com (fruitbat.wordtothewise.com [208.187.80.135]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0MI2WrV026101 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:02:37 -0800 Received: from platter.wordtothewise.com (184.wordtothewise.com [208.187.80.184]) by m.wordtothewise.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 785A88140D for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:02:31 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) From: Steve Atkins <steve@word-to-the-wise.com> In-Reply-To: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F6A88@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:00:31 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8C8BBF2C-CED5-400D-A252-BAFDDC188FF4@word-to-the-wise.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F69D2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1001212039140.26519@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F6A88@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> To: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10325/Fri Jan 22 07:00:57 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:02:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:02:38 -0000 On Jan 22, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: abuse-feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org [mailto:abuse- >> feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org] On Behalf Of John R. Levine >> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 5:40 PM >> To: Steve Atkins >> Cc: ARF mailing list >> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list >> >>> That appears to be discussing the "MARF" protocol. >> >> I hope the plan is that MARF is the WG, ARF is still the protocol. > > That's my current belief. That'll work. Cheers, Steve Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.35]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0MHXxsG023241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits8 verifyúIL) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:34:04 -0800 Received: from EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.74]) by malice.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.71]) with mapi; Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:33:58 -0800 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> To: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com>, Steve Atkins <steve@word-to-the-wise.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:33:58 -0800 Thread-Topic: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list Thread-Index: AcqbDDdIR8nRIsIkShewCNLvY828nQAfNR/w Message-ID: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F6A88@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F69D2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1001212039140.26519@simone.lan> In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1001212039140.26519@simone.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10325/Fri Jan 22 07:00:57 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:34:04 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0MHXxsG023241 Cc: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:34:04 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: abuse-feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org [mailto:abuse- > feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org] On Behalf Of John R. Levine > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 5:40 PM > To: Steve Atkins > Cc: ARF mailing list > Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list > > > That appears to be discussing the "MARF" protocol. > > I hope the plan is that MARF is the WG, ARF is still the protocol. That's my current belief. Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.35]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0MHXaYF023197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits8 verifyúIL) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:33:41 -0800 Received: from EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.74]) by malice.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.71]) with mapi; Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:33:35 -0800 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> To: Steve Atkins <steve@word-to-the-wise.com>, ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:33:34 -0800 Thread-Topic: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list Thread-Index: AcqbAlcOQovhxPTDTkSpHFbYN3oFXwAhlMSQ Message-ID: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F6A86@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F69D2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> In-Reply-To: <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10325/Fri Jan 22 07:00:57 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:33:41 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0MHXaYF023197 Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:33:41 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: abuse-feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org [mailto:abuse- > feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org] On Behalf Of Steve Atkins > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 4:51 PM > To: ARF mailing list > Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list > > That appears to be discussing the "MARF" protocol. > > That isn't an arbitrary name change that'll discard existing mindshare > and spread confusion amongst users about the difference between "ARF" > and "MARF", is it? My unconfirmed understanding is that the IESG felt "Abuse Report Format" was too generic, i.e. it established no context for the abuse being reported. The IETF covers a lot of different areas of Internet activity, not just messaging, so the name needed to be more precise. I'm not really concerned about the above. I think the active participants are smart enough and involved enough to keep it all straight. Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [208.31.42.53]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0M2ddXP007670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits%6 verify=NO) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:39:45 -0800 Authentication-Results: sbh17.songbird.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.i=@iecc.com Received: (qmail 9520 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2010 01:39:37 -0000 Received: (ofmipd 208.31.42.62) with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 22 Jan 2010 01:39:15 -0000 Date: 21 Jan 2010 20:39:37 -0500 Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1001212039140.26519@simone.lan> From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> To: "Steve Atkins" <steve@word-to-the-wise.com> In-Reply-To: <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F69D2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10323/Thu Jan 21 13:36:12 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 01:00:01 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:39:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 02:39:45 -0000 > That appears to be discussing the "MARF" protocol. I hope the plan is that MARF is the WG, ARF is still the protocol. R's, John Received: from m.wordtothewise.com (fruitbat.wordtothewise.com [208.187.80.135]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0M1T2ko002888 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:29:07 -0800 Received: from platter.wordtothewise.com (184.wordtothewise.com [208.187.80.184]) by m.wordtothewise.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4128133C for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:51:25 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) From: Steve Atkins <steve@word-to-the-wise.com> In-Reply-To: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F69D2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:51:24 -0800 Message-Id: <86843FA5-BB20-4624-9585-24DCA8B86305@word-to-the-wise.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F69D2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> To: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10323/Thu Jan 21 13:36:12 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:37:36 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:29:07 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0M1T2ko002888 Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 01:29:07 -0000 On Jan 21, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: abuse-feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org [mailto:abuse- >> feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org] On Behalf Of Yakov Shafranovich >> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 4:23 PM >> To: dcrocker@bbiw.net >> Cc: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org >> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list >> >> What is the new list name? > > I was waiting for some kind of formal announcement from the IESG to forward, but since the cat's out of the bag, it's marf@ietf.org. You can subscribe at https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/marf. That appears to be discussing the "MARF" protocol. That isn't an arbitrary name change that'll discard existing mindshare and spread confusion amongst users about the difference between "ARF" and "MARF", is it? Cheers, Steve Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.35]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0M0V58x031090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits8 verifyúIL) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:31:10 -0800 Received: from EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.74]) by malice.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.71]) with mapi; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:31:04 -0800 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> To: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov@shaftek.org>, "dcrocker@bbiw.net" <dcrocker@bbiw.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:31:04 -0800 Thread-Topic: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list Thread-Index: Acqa+TC7SuZx0KncTDeqtEAYjOH96gAAIbew Message-ID: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F69D2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10323/Thu Jan 21 13:36:12 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:31:10 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0M0V58x031090 Cc: "abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org" <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:31:10 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: abuse-feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org [mailto:abuse- > feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org] On Behalf Of Yakov Shafranovich > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 4:23 PM > To: dcrocker@bbiw.net > Cc: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org > Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list > > What is the new list name? I was waiting for some kind of formal announcement from the IESG to forward, but since the cat's out of the bag, it's marf@ietf.org. You can subscribe at https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/marf. Received: from mail-ew0-f227.google.com (mail-ew0-f227.google.com [209.85.219.227]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0M0NFrQ030598 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:23:20 -0800 Received: by ewy27 with SMTP id 27so745666ewy.16 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:23:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.90.21 with SMTP id d21mr900981wef.85.1264119794130; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:23:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> From: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov@shaftek.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:22:53 -0500 Message-ID: <501c18e01001211622s5aea1920id0a7ca0b2be48c97@mail.gmail.com> To: dcrocker@bbiw.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10323/Thu Jan 21 13:36:12 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:23:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0M0NFrQ030598 Cc: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:23:21 -0000 What is the new list name? On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net> wrote: > Folks, > > I've received notice that the mailing list is to be moved, to be hosted at the IETF. > > While the IETF has had hosting available for quite awhile, it hasn't been a > requirement for chartered working groups. Apparently that's changed. > > Since this is not currently a highly active or large list, that switch should > not be overly difficult, but I thought it proper to check with folks first about > how to proceed, so that a) service is not interrupted, and b) the archive is > preserved. > > This is, essentially, a manual database synchronization tasks, where some of the > transaction components are measured in days. > > The simplest approach would be for me to lock the list from postings until the > archive is moved to the new list and then announce the new list, for everyone to > subscribe to. > > Thoughts? > > d/ > -- > > Dave Crocker > Brandenburg InternetWorking > bbiw.net > _______________________________________________ > abuse-feedback-report mailing list > abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org > http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report > Received: from mail-fx0-f209.google.com (mail-fx0-f209.google.com [209.85.220.209]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0LJ3FBh006079 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:03:21 -0800 Authentication-Results: sbh17.songbird.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.i=@gmail.com Received: by fxm1 with SMTP id 1so361617fxm.16 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:03:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.15.86 with SMTP id j22mr1866616faa.47.1264100594006; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:03:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F68E0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F68E0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:03:13 -0500 Message-ID: <6c9fcc2a1001211103x527ba299s4eb0a62c448ad9bd@mail.gmail.com> From: Barry Leiba <barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com> To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10321/Thu Jan 21 04:52:28 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 11:03:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0LJ3FBh006079 Cc: "dcrocker@bbiw.net" <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, "abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org" <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: barryleiba@computer.org List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:03:22 -0000 For those who don't know, the new list is already up: marf@ietf.org > So the two lists can coexist, the current list for general discussion > on the topic and the ietf.org list for actual working group discussion > in the context of IETF work. Whether this is wise or not depends upon what actually gets discussed here (on the "old" list). There's a danger of fragmenting useful discussion in two places, and having IETF participants who are not subscribed here miss things they ought to see and comment on. This list should certainly stay around, and it'd be a great place to discuss things that are out of scope for the IETF working group, but the regular participants should keep an eye on it and direct discussions that are appropriate for the IETF group to the IETF mailing list. Barry Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.35]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0LHYnJZ031276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits8 verifyúIL) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:34:55 -0800 Received: from EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.74]) by malice.corp.cloudmark.com ([172.22.1.71]) with mapi; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:04:14 -0800 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> To: "dcrocker@bbiw.net" <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, "abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org" <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:04:13 -0800 Thread-Topic: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list Thread-Index: AcqaqTVTQTO79kPZTeq9TZ2e+MnxNwAEgVEQ Message-ID: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C35F68E0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10321/Thu Jan 21 04:52:28 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:30:35 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:34:55 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0LHYnJZ031276 Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:34:55 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: abuse-feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org [mailto:abuse- > feedback-report-bounces@mipassoc.org] On Behalf Of Dave CROCKER > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:51 AM > To: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org > Subject: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list > > Folks, > > I've received notice that the mailing list is to be moved, to be hosted > at the IETF. > > [...] > > Thoughts? Speaking from the MAAWG side of things, I don't see a reason that the list has to be moved. This list was created long before the IETF had any particular interest in ARF, and there's no rule anyplace that says there can only be one list on a particular topic. So the two lists can coexist, the current list for general discussion on the topic and the ietf.org list for actual working group discussion in the context of IETF work. The ietf.org list can have a copy of the archive for historical reference if it wants, since it's an open archive anyway. Received: from [192.168.1.17] (ppp-67-124-89-225.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.124.89.225]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0LEoouD017123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits%6 verify=NO) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:50:55 -0800 Message-ID: <4B5869C6.5070608@dcrocker.net> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:50:46 -0800 From: Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net> Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091204 Thunderbird/3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10321/Thu Jan 21 04:52:28 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 06:50:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [feedback-report] Switching to an IETF-hosted mailing list X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:50:55 -0000 Folks, I've received notice that the mailing list is to be moved, to be hosted at the IETF. While the IETF has had hosting available for quite awhile, it hasn't been a requirement for chartered working groups. Apparently that's changed. Since this is not currently a highly active or large list, that switch should not be overly difficult, but I thought it proper to check with folks first about how to proceed, so that a) service is not interrupted, and b) the archive is preserved. This is, essentially, a manual database synchronization tasks, where some of the transaction components are measured in days. The simplest approach would be for me to lock the list from postings until the archive is moved to the new list and then announce the new list, for everyone to subscribe to. Thoughts? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0ENvkQJ026933 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:57:52 -0800 Received: from [172.16.2.141] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <S0-oUwBYj6w6@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:27:16 +0000 Message-ID: <4B4FA82F.604@isode.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:26:39 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org" <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> References: <4B4FA7D9.4090600@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <4B4FA7D9.4090600@isode.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10300/Thu Jan 14 13:31:46 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:57:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Chairs for the ARF working group X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:57:52 -0000 Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Hi, > In my capacity of Area Director sponsoring formation of this working > group, I would like to solicit recommendations about chairs for the > WG-to-be. I forgot to mention that self nominations are permitted and encouraged. > Ideally I am looking for one experienced IETF person and for one chair > who is new to IETF and is an expert in the field. > > Please send your feedback directly to me. > > Thank you, > Alexey -- IETF Application Area Director, <http://www.ietf.org/IESGmems.html> Internet Messaging Team Lead, <http://www.isode.com> JID: same as my email address Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0ENuKRC026767 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:56:26 -0800 Received: from [172.16.2.141] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id <S0-n=gBYjyUr@rufus.isode.com>; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:25:51 +0000 Message-ID: <4B4FA7D9.4090600@isode.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:25:13 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org" <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10300/Thu Jan 14 13:31:46 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:30:29 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:56:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [feedback-report] Chairs for the ARF working group X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:56:26 -0000 Hi, In my capacity of Area Director sponsoring formation of this working group, I would like to solicit recommendations about chairs for the WG-to-be. Ideally I am looking for one experienced IETF person and for one chair who is new to IETF and is an expert in the field. Please send your feedback directly to me. Thank you, Alexey -- IETF Application Area Director, <http://www.ietf.org/IESGmems.html> Internet Messaging Team Lead, <http://www.isode.com> JID: same as my email address Received: from ocelope.disgruntled.net (ocelope.disgruntled.net [97.107.131.76]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0BM6oA7003914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits%6 verifyúIL) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:06:56 -0800 Received: from rpco-kdhunt.rpcorp.local (np34.co.returnpath.net [38.109.196.34]) (authenticated bits=0) by ocelope.disgruntled.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id o0BLXkiF018866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher®S128-SHA bits8 verify=NOT) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:33:48 -0700 References: <501c18e01001051501j4aad62dfn1b28b55b5335f88f@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <501c18e01001051501j4aad62dfn1b28b55b5335f88f@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <A714CD1A-ED08-462A-BBA9-F1413E83CCEA@cybernothing.org> From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk-lists@cybernothing.org> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:33:41 -0700 To: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10281/Mon Jan 11 10:50:04 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:33:01 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:06:56 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0BM6oA7003914 Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Reporting phone numbers with ARF X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:06:57 -0000 On Jan 5, 2010, at 4:01 PM, Yakov Shafranovich wrote: > This is a question that was asked to me by an ISP. My answer is to use > Reported-URI field as follows: > > Reported-URI: tel:+1-201-555-0123 > > The formatting is as per RFC 3966. > > I know that helpdesk software may not support this, but from a > standards viewpoint is there anything wrong with this approach? I believe that's exactly why we settled on URIs rather than hostnames, services, et cetera. -- J.D. Falk <jdfalk@returnpath.net> Return Path Inc Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (imr-ma06.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.142]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o06J1j9e024395 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 11:01:50 -0800 Received: from AOLMTCMEH01.ad.office.aol.com (aolmtcmeh01.office.aol.com [10.178.121.20]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o06ITpJN004370; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:29:51 -0500 Received: from AOLMTCMEI02.ad.office.aol.com ([10.178.3.19]) by AOLMTCMEH01.ad.office.aol.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:29:51 -0500 Received: from [10.181.178.134] ([10.178.3.11]) by AOLMTCMEI02.ad.office.aol.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:29:50 -0500 Message-ID: <4B44D6EE.3060705@corp.aol.com> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 13:31:10 -0500 From: Michael Adkins <michael.adkins@corp.aol.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090817) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ricardo Signes <email.arf@rjbs.manxome.org> References: <20100106171403.GA11126@cancer.codesimply.com> In-Reply-To: <20100106171403.GA11126@cancer.codesimply.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2010 18:29:50.0939 (UTC) FILETIME=[3BC9AAB0:01CA8EFE] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10264/Wed Jan 6 09:54:01 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:31:39 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:01:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Subject: Re: [feedback-report] AOL ARF reports suddenly less useful? X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:01:51 -0000 Ricardo Signes wrote: > Some time within the last 24 hours or so, AOL's ARF-style reports seem to have > become drastically less useful. Although the original reporter's address has > long been redacted (by being replaced with "redacted") they now seem to be > obscuring *all* kinda of local parts. For example: > > List-Subscribe: <mailto:subscribe-redacted@listbox.com> > > Well, great. They also redact the Errors-To and Return-Path. Yes, the user's email address is redacted anywhere it is present in the header. That is not new. > Also, their > header folding appears to be broken, as the message/rfc822 part of one report > now reads like this: > > X-Pobox-Relay-ID: > B4599EE4-F98A-11DE-97BC-2B0D0635E987-05628567!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com > x-aol-global-disposition: G > > Other places, headers are wrapped where no whitespace appears, corrupting its > contents. > You'll have to send us a full original example. > I can keep devising new ways to take automatic action, but... anybody from AOL > want to let me know that this was a glitch? The last thing I want to is to > have to fight an ongoing battle against the dying usefulness of ARF reports. > > Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com [208.72.237.35]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o06IXFUC022624 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:33:20 -0800 Authentication-Results: sbh17.songbird.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.i=@pobox.com Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8237E82259; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:33:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix. (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA1082253; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:33:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from cancer.codesimply.com (unknown [70.87.222.20]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2F4AC82252; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:33:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by cancer.codesimply.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 10572219A01; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:33:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:33:10 -0500 From: Ricardo Signes <email.arf@rjbs.manxome.org> To: Michael Adkins <michael.adkins@corp.aol.com> Message-ID: <20100106183310.GA11728@cancer.codesimply.com> References: <20100106171403.GA11126@cancer.codesimply.com> <4B44D6EE.3060705@corp.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4B44D6EE.3060705@corp.aol.com> X-Message-Flag: Warning: Your computer is current broadcasting an IP address. X-Planet: Planet of the Apes User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: F2BDDAB6-FAF1-11DE-ADA3-2B0D0635E987-07314517!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10264/Wed Jan 6 09:54:01 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Wed, 06 Jan 2010 10:33:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Subject: Re: [feedback-report] AOL ARF reports suddenly less useful? X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:33:21 -0000 * Michael Adkins <michael.adkins@corp.aol.com> [2010-01-06T13:31:10] > Ricardo Signes wrote: > > Some time within the last 24 hours or so, AOL's ARF-style reports seem to have > > become drastically less useful. Although the original reporter's address has > > long been redacted (by being replaced with "redacted") they now seem to be > > obscuring *all* kinda of local parts. For example: > > > > List-Subscribe: <mailto:subscribe-redacted@listbox.com> > > > > Well, great. They also redact the Errors-To and Return-Path. > Yes, the user's email address is redacted anywhere it is present in the > header. That is not new. The user's email address is not the list-subscribe address, the error-to address, or the retun-path. They do not share significant substrings, even. Shall I send these to the address above at corp.aol.com, or is there a better role address for this problem report? -- rjbs Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com [208.72.237.35]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o06HrVVM020106 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 09:53:37 -0800 Authentication-Results: sbh17.songbird.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.i=@pobox.com Received: from sasl.smtp.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 054E181CEB for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:14:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from b-pb-sasl-quonix. (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01DCB81CE9 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:14:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from cancer.codesimply.com (unknown [70.87.222.20]) by b-sasl-quonix.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D5F9881CE8 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:14:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by cancer.codesimply.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7C814F577; Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:14:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:14:03 -0500 From: Ricardo Signes <email.arf@rjbs.manxome.org> To: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Message-ID: <20100106171403.GA11126@cancer.codesimply.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Pobox-Relay-ID: E471E67E-FAE6-11DE-968C-2B0D0635E987-07314517!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10263/Wed Jan 6 07:59:29 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:39:26 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:53:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [feedback-report] AOL ARF reports suddenly less useful? X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:53:37 -0000 Some time within the last 24 hours or so, AOL's ARF-style reports seem to have become drastically less useful. Although the original reporter's address has long been redacted (by being replaced with "redacted") they now seem to be obscuring *all* kinda of local parts. For example: List-Subscribe: <mailto:subscribe-redacted@listbox.com> Well, great. They also redact the Errors-To and Return-Path. Also, their header folding appears to be broken, as the message/rfc822 part of one report now reads like this: X-Pobox-Relay-ID: B4599EE4-F98A-11DE-97BC-2B0D0635E987-05628567!b-pb-sasl-quonix.pobox.com x-aol-global-disposition: G Other places, headers are wrapped where no whitespace appears, corrupting its contents. I can keep devising new ways to take automatic action, but... anybody from AOL want to let me know that this was a glitch? The last thing I want to is to have to fight an ongoing battle against the dying usefulness of ARF reports. -- rjbs Received: from mail-ew0-f217.google.com (mail-ew0-f217.google.com [209.85.219.217]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o062i9x6015731 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:44:14 -0800 Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so6716432ewy.11 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:44:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.87.16 with SMTP id x16mr4555193wee.106.1262745848130; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:44:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <B15747B8-1AB0-43CD-A30B-79E568DF9DFB@word-to-the-wise.com> References: <501c18e01001051501j4aad62dfn1b28b55b5335f88f@mail.gmail.com> <B15747B8-1AB0-43CD-A30B-79E568DF9DFB@word-to-the-wise.com> From: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov@shaftek.org> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 21:43:48 -0500 Message-ID: <501c18e01001051843h551ba37wa0e79b0f99930f6a@mail.gmail.com> To: Steve Atkins <steve@word-to-the-wise.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10261/Tue Jan 5 09:13:12 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:44:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Reporting phone numbers with ARF X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 02:44:15 -0000 On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Steve Atkins <steve@word-to-the-wise.com> wrote: > > On Jan 5, 2010, at 6:01 PM, Yakov Shafranovich wrote: > >> This is a question that was asked to me by an ISP. My answer is to use >> Reported-URI field as follows: >> >> Reported-URI: tel:+1-201-555-0123 >> >> The formatting is as per RFC 3966. >> >> I know that helpdesk software may not support this, but from a >> standards viewpoint is there anything wrong with this approach? > > In ARF standards terms? I don't think so, though it might be worth listing some of the URIs that could reasonably be used in that field, for the benefit of readers who think all URIs start with http. > I can think of the following being used but some are really stretching the spec: dns: ftp: http: im: mailto: news: nntp: sip: tel: xmpp: Yakov Received: from m.wordtothewise.com (fruitbat.wordtothewise.com [208.187.80.135]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o0613vDu009848 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:04:03 -0800 Received: from [10.0.2.2] (pool-71-178-108-139.washdc.east.verizon.net [71.178.108.139]) by m.wordtothewise.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0904F801C2 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:27:32 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) From: Steve Atkins <steve@word-to-the-wise.com> In-Reply-To: <501c18e01001051501j4aad62dfn1b28b55b5335f88f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 19:27:31 -0500 Message-Id: <B15747B8-1AB0-43CD-A30B-79E568DF9DFB@word-to-the-wise.com> References: <501c18e01001051501j4aad62dfn1b28b55b5335f88f@mail.gmail.com> To: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10261/Tue Jan 5 09:13:12 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:36:25 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:04:03 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o0613vDu009848 Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Reporting phone numbers with ARF X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 01:04:03 -0000 On Jan 5, 2010, at 6:01 PM, Yakov Shafranovich wrote: > This is a question that was asked to me by an ISP. My answer is to use > Reported-URI field as follows: > > Reported-URI: tel:+1-201-555-0123 > > The formatting is as per RFC 3966. > > I know that helpdesk software may not support this, but from a > standards viewpoint is there anything wrong with this approach? In ARF standards terms? I don't think so, though it might be worth listing some of the URIs that could reasonably be used in that field, for the benefit of readers who think all URIs start with http. (Operationally, I can't think offhand of anyone who would care about use of a phone number at all, let alone accept abuse reports via email or signup for a feedback loop, but that's not our problem.) Cheers, Steve Received: from mail-ew0-f217.google.com (mail-ew0-f217.google.com [209.85.219.217]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o05N237d003386 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:02:09 -0800 Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so6574280ewy.11 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:02:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.91.20 with SMTP id g20mr2634932wef.94.1262732522450; Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:02:02 -0800 (PST) From: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov@shaftek.org> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:01:42 -0500 Message-ID: <501c18e01001051501j4aad62dfn1b28b55b5335f88f@mail.gmail.com> To: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10261/Tue Jan 5 09:13:12 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:02:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [feedback-report] Reporting phone numbers with ARF X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:02:09 -0000 This is a question that was asked to me by an ISP. My answer is to use Reported-URI field as follows: Reported-URI: tel:+1-201-555-0123 The formatting is as per RFC 3966. I know that helpdesk software may not support this, but from a standards viewpoint is there anything wrong with this approach? Yakov Received: from mail-ew0-f217.google.com (mail-ew0-f217.google.com [209.85.219.217]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o050jM2M011846 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:45:28 -0800 Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so5492552ewy.11 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:45:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.93.81 with SMTP id k59mr3227468wef.169.1262652321205; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:45:21 -0800 (PST) From: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov@shaftek.org> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:45:01 -0500 Message-ID: <501c18e01001041645j2a503f61kb161b81f0cb70c05@mail.gmail.com> To: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary 16e6d7ef16148eb8047c6027bb X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10259/Mon Jan 4 15:50:25 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:45:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [feedback-report] Followup on "redacted" header X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:45:29 -0000 --0016e6d7ef16148eb8047c6027bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think that the consensus is so far that the "redacted" header feature isn't necessary. We can always add the header later on if needed. Let's move on to other things. Yakov ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tobias Knecht <knut@abusix.org> Date: 2010/1/4 Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Let's get started To: Cc: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Hi all, > I will have to consult with Return Path, our FBL hosting provider, > to determine whether such a thing would be feasible for them. That is exactly the point. We were discussing about leaving DKIM out (thank god), because nobody is using it. We were discussing about getting rid of some Feedback Types, because nobody is using it. And now we are discussing about adding an optional field, that only makes sense in a mandatory way (which by the way I don't like) and I guess less than 10% of all current arf messages (AOL, ...?) are using this field at the moment. So we create work for the other 90% who are free to do so or let it go. And we do all that for the benefit of telling complaining report receivers, that we have already told them that the reports are redacted? (Assuming we implemented it, because there is no need, because it's optional). I'm confused, seems like it's going in circles. --0016e6d7ef16148eb8047c6027bb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: 0.0.1 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuNC45IChHTlUv TGludXgpCkNvbW1lbnQ6IFVzaW5nIEdudVBHIHdpdGggTW96aWxsYSAtIGh0dHA6Ly9lbmlnbWFp bC5tb3pkZXYub3JnLwoKaUVZRUFSRUNBQVlGQWt0Q2JlNEFDZ2tRdkI0TTV5UXlxRGZKSkFDYUFq N3dIdi93RGJhZWc4UVI1MjZBb1hlcQplSmNBb09tWEs0R2E0aU44blpPZEtLZ3VoMmJmaDNpMwo9 MlM1ZQotLS0tLUVORCBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --0016e6d7ef16148eb8047c6027bb-- Received: from wp204.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp204.webpack.hosteurope.de [80.237.132.211]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o04NHnEd007521 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:17:55 -0800 Received: from p57946267.dip.t-dialin.net ([87.148.98.103] helo=[192.168.1.100]); authenticated by wp204.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpa id 1NRvZR-0005XF-0M; Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:38:41 +0100 Message-ID: <4B426DEA.1000709@abusix.org> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:38:34 +0100 From: Tobias Knecht <knut@abusix.org> Organization: abusix UG =?ISO-8859-1?Q?(haftungsbeschränkt)?User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090817) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org References: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E896EE@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0912101357170.96015@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A28C@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <501c18e00912280611t2114f4d5nd4e13d7f1d13eff9@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A38C@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20091229164614.0324cba8@resistor.net> <501c18e00912292015n41760fffu5504cdf5ce3baece@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A39E@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0912300201150.51470@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A3A0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <20100104214747.GA2403@todzilla.mail.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <20100104214747.GA2403@todzilla.mail.rr.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig2E2E3F4DAF5B7F3DADC260F3" X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;knut@abusix.org;1262647075;cc12b00e; X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10258/Mon Jan 4 11:21:01 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:39:08 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:17:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Let's get started X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:17:56 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig2E2E3F4DAF5B7F3DADC260F3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, > I will have to consult with Return Path, our FBL hosting provider, > to determine whether such a thing would be feasible for them. That is exactly the point. We were discussing about leaving DKIM out (thank god), because nobody is using it. We were discussing about getting rid of some Feedback Types, because nobody is using it. And now we are discussing about adding an optional field, that only makes sense in a mandatory way (which by the way I don't like) and I guess less than 10% of all current arf messages (AOL, ...?) are using this field at the moment. So we create work for the other 90% who are free to do so or let it go. And we do all that for the benefit of telling complaining report receivers, that we have already told them that the reports are redacted? (Assuming we implemented it, because there is no need, because it's optional). I'm confused, seems like it's going in circles. Tobias --------------enig2E2E3F4DAF5B7F3DADC260F3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktCbe4ACgkQvB4M5yQyqDfJJACaAj7wHv/wDbaeg8QR526AoXeq eJcAoOmXK4Ga4iN8nZOdKKguh2bfh3i3 =2S5e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig2E2E3F4DAF5B7F3DADC260F3-- Received: from todzilla.mail.rr.com (todzilla.mail.rr.com [24.28.207.21]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o04MHsj2004198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits%6 verify=NO) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:18:01 -0800 Received: from todzilla.mail.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by todzilla.mail.rr.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o04LllWF006876 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:47:47 -0500 Received: (from therr@localhost) by todzilla.mail.rr.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id o04LllUS006872 for abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:47:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: todzilla.mail.rr.com: therr set sender to therr@postmaster.rr.com using -f Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 16:47:47 -0500 From: Todd Herr <therr@postmaster.rr.com> To: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org Message-ID: <20100104214747.GA2403@todzilla.mail.rr.com> References: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E896EE@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0912101357170.96015@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A28C@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <501c18e00912280611t2114f4d5nd4e13d7f1d13eff9@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A38C@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20091229164614.0324cba8@resistor.net> <501c18e00912292015n41760fffu5504cdf5ce3baece@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A39E@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0912300201150.51470@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A3A0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A3A0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-08-17) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10258/Mon Jan 4 11:21:01 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:30:07 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Mon, 04 Jan 2010 14:18:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Let's get started X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:18:02 -0000 On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:05:08PM -0800, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John R. Levine [mailto:johnl@iecc.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:02 PM > > To: Murray S. Kucherawy > > Cc: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org > > Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Let's get started > > > > >> Content-Redacted: Yes > > > > > > I think it is. And we don't need to register it because it exists in > > a format we're defining ourselves, not in the message header proper. > > > > > > Anyone object, or shall I add this and adjust various wording > > accordingly? > > > > I don't have any theological objections, but it might be interesting to > > ask RR, AOL, and other ARF senders who redact whether they'd be likely > > to > > add it. > > Well, they're on the list and (at least occasionally) participating. Fellas? I will have to consult with Return Path, our FBL hosting provider, to determine whether such a thing would be feasible for them. -- Todd Herr Principal Engineer and Postmaster V: 703.345.2447 Road Runner Email Operations M: 571.287.0366 therr@postmaster.rr.com AIM: RRMailToddHerr Received: from ocelope.disgruntled.net (ocelope.disgruntled.net [97.107.131.76]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o04LOqEI031340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits%6 verifyúIL) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:24:58 -0800 Authentication-Results: sbh17.songbird.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.i=@cybernothing.org Received: from [10.0.3.106] (np34.co.returnpath.net [38.109.196.34]) (authenticated bits=0) by ocelope.disgruntled.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id o04KnKf1032080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher®S128-SHA bits8 verify=NOT) for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:49:22 -0700 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.6.0 ocelope.disgruntled.net o04KnKf1032080 References: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E896EE@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0912101357170.96015@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A28C@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <501c18e00912280611t2114f4d5nd4e13d7f1d13eff9@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A38C@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20091229164614.0324cba8@resistor.net> <501c18e00912292015n41760fffu5504cdf5ce3baece@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A39E@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0912300201150.51470@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A3A0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <4B4218EE.10708@corp.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <4B4218EE.10708@corp.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <3F467EB2-83E2-478C-B135-7D93A0CEA8DC@cybernothing.org> From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk-lists@cybernothing.org> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:49:14 -0700 To: ARF mailing list <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10258/Mon Jan 4 11:21:01 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:35:29 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:24:58 -0800 (PST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sbh17.songbird.com id o04LOqEI031340 Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Let's get started X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 21:24:58 -0000 On Jan 4, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Michael Adkins wrote: > We already add - > > "Redacted-Address: redacted > Redacted-Address: redacted@" > > to the second mime part to indicate that the the word 'redacted' has > been used in place of the original local part of the email address, both > on its own or as part of a full email address, in the third mime part. Would you want to add that to the registry of fields, once that registry is formed? If so, perhaps that's sufficient for this effort. -- J.D. Falk <jdfalk@returnpath.net> Return Path Inc Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (imr-mb01.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.164]) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o04H5jvq015708 for <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org>; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:05:50 -0800 Received: from AOLMTCMEH01.ad.office.aol.com (aolmtcmeh01.office.aol.com [10.178.121.20]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o04GYngY015537; Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:34:49 -0500 Received: from AOLMTCMEI04.ad.office.aol.com ([10.178.3.24]) by AOLMTCMEH01.ad.office.aol.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:34:49 -0500 Received: from [10.181.178.134] ([10.178.3.10]) by AOLMTCMEI04.ad.office.aol.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:34:49 -0500 Message-ID: <4B4218EE.10708@corp.aol.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 11:35:58 -0500 From: Michael Adkins <michael.adkins@corp.aol.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090817) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> References: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E896EE@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0912101357170.96015@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A28C@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <501c18e00912280611t2114f4d5nd4e13d7f1d13eff9@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A38C@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20091229164614.0324cba8@resistor.net> <501c18e00912292015n41760fffu5504cdf5ce3baece@mail.gmail.com> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A39E@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0912300201150.51470@simone.lan> <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A3A0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <BB012BD379D7B046ABE1472D8093C61C01C1E8A3A0@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2010 16:34:49.0257 (UTC) FILETIME=[D53D1190:01CA8D5B] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/10256/Mon Jan 4 07:41:58 2010 on sbh17.songbird.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:30:43 by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.70]); Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:05:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: "abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org" <abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Let's get started X-BeenThere: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Public forum for discussion on the feedback-report draft <abuse-feedback-report.mipassoc.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/abuse-feedback-report> List-Post: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org> List-Help: <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report>, <mailto:abuse-feedback-report-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:05:51 -0000 We already add - "Redacted-Address: redacted Redacted-Address: redacted@" to the second mime part to indicate that the the word 'redacted' has been used in place of the original local part of the email address, both on its own or as part of a full email address, in the third mime part. Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John R. Levine [mailto:johnl@iecc.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:02 PM >> To: Murray S. Kucherawy >> Cc: abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org >> Subject: Re: [feedback-report] Let's get started >> >> >>>> Content-Redacted: Yes >>>> >>> I think it is. And we don't need to register it because it exists in >>> >> a format we're defining ourselves, not in the message header proper. >> >>> Anyone object, or shall I add this and adjust various wording >>> >> accordingly? >> >> I don't have any theological objections, but it might be interesting to >> ask RR, AOL, and other ARF senders who redact whether they'd be likely >> to >> add it. >> > > Well, they're on the list and (at least occasionally) participating. Fellas? > > _______________________________________________ > abuse-feedback-report mailing list > abuse-feedback-report@mipassoc.org > http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/abuse-feedback-report >
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Yakov Shafranovich
- [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Steve Atkins
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Steve Atkins
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Michael Adkins
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 John R Levine
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 J.D. Falk
- Re: [marf] draft-ietf-marf-base-00 J.D. Falk