Re: [Masque] TTL and infinite QUIC-proxy loops

> Le 15 nov. 2023 à 11:54, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> a écrit :
> 
> (Looking forward to not having to say "with no hats" in 4 months).
> 
> In my presentation in Prague on infinite quic-proxy loops, I dismissed the idea that simply decrementing the TTL was a sufficient mitigation for infinite loops caused by a misbehaving client, because 256 hops is still a lot. In response, Ted suggested that we could use a lower limit.
> 
> Thankfully, we did not try to further design this at the mic.
> 
> But, thinking about it some more, Ted's suggestion could mean two things:
> 
> (1) Use the IP TTL field: "When receiving a packet from the target, a proxy MUST set the TTL on the forwarded packet's IP header to a value lower than the TTL value of the incoming IP header. Furthermore, the TTL value MUST be no larger than N".

My understanding of most implementations is that they use 64 by default, not 256. 64 as an Internet hop count radius is already pretty large. Would that value (64) make the issue less problematic?

Marc.

> 
> Clearly, for some value of N the mitigation would be sufficient. I have not checked if this in some way violates the rules about IP TTL. I also wonder if a hard limit is sufficiently permissive for legitimate but long paths.
> 
> (2) There is some sort of MASQUE field that counts down the number of proxy hops. I cannot see how this can work, as (a) these are packets from the target, which is not going to add MASQUE-specific stuff; (b) by design, proxies do not know if targets are also MASQUE proxies; and (c) by design, proxies to do not know if clients are MASQUE proxies.
> 
> *****
> 
> I do not object to decrementing the IP TTL field by one in forwarded mode, though I think that is an insufficient mitigation for this attack. If anyone has a better-thought out design to enforce a limit, or thinks that 256 hops is just fine, I would appreciate their input.
> 
> Martin
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