Re: [Mimi] Confirming adoption calls for draft-barnes-mimi-arch and draft-ralston-mimi-protocol

Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> Tue, 26 March 2024 11:15 UTC

Return-Path: <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
X-Original-To: mimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316FBC14CEFA for <mimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Mar 2024 04:15:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.107
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTDiqC_mg7WK for <mimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Mar 2024 04:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx3.open-xchange.com (mx3.open-xchange.com [87.191.57.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9443C151980 for <mimi@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Mar 2024 04:15:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from imap.open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.28.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx3.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 30B1F6A0D4; Tue, 26 Mar 2024 12:15:34 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1711451734; bh=MqKLgkev+u0qfLyWuKV9pM/50Dp5UBTbiP+A2ygT1l4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=dsUn/HAbTKoBtuIFqCk24ZjdrgivCDzIQ96q/ioxFFF4J+zgYW1briVkfndNVx+uq BBIdJGqlCGOPsAiRfMz/Yg60QYfQQkinyhucXBrAtMzV1HRcc5aPVwwhMgypkayeDz 01XHO9PUmJgJnmxrqCGLU4VDu2Rr3Jj/c1qslSlIgmh4SDrHAJZ0eJZQfdGh3i3S4Y bD5csXLNrTb3FCRxfxTvKYExcO+gWDZVfYvwYVubm5WwZUpiNGSac+Qs3UhvtnNpun 3asLOVhgvC1wW2l8M8eNAvFvyyPcBhAiNmEUn1MBuAvWrvDq/8ckyiLPku/4BFKBwN m7amvnyMiVWUQ==
Received: from appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com ([10.20.28.82]) by imap.open-xchange.com with ESMTPSA id 4W5kC1auAmZs0hcA3c6Kzw (envelope-from <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>); Tue, 26 Mar 2024 12:15:34 +0100
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 12:15:34 +0100
From: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Cc: mimi@ietf.org
Message-ID: <1769042047.132027.1711451734150@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <54e875bb-6a35-4879-b7f7-2a33da96b4b4@cs.tcd.ie>
References: <8C305FF1-41E2-4E60-94CF-B15A5EEBFC03@cooperw.in> <CAKoiRuYse46M5TiCoCgMhuW=MZrAmfJf0KUkZGX20PJVUmM66Q@mail.gmail.com> <CANd9WG55weUzkDA5MjKxS8cEg=dAaqVOyEsVxEO7p0wA7J7yNw@mail.gmail.com> <CAMRcRGT_hqdO_AEg4oHgmN_sFrpQoPyxuU20Snt1S1Y5ym0qHA@mail.gmail.com> <CAJTd26JOvqpuakznGK5dqUEX2wW1FhvS==Zk+oZKvWgtq+cPFg@mail.gmail.com> <CAL02cgTd=5GCcLpKqB5=XgFq-geUuFrFW-2Cu84F7=3QLdTdLA@mail.gmail.com> <54e875bb-6a35-4879-b7f7-2a33da96b4b4@cs.tcd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.6-Rev59
X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite
Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mimi/9KIV_6UlJDzvacVSQYE030cjbUA>
Subject: Re: [Mimi] Confirming adoption calls for draft-barnes-mimi-arch and draft-ralston-mimi-protocol
X-BeenThere: mimi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: More Instant Messaging Interoperability <mimi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mimi>, <mailto:mimi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mimi/>
List-Post: <mailto:mimi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mimi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mimi>, <mailto:mimi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 11:15:46 -0000


> Il 23/03/2024 10:38 CET Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> ha scritto:
> 
> On 23/03/2024 01:56, Richard Barnes wrote:
> > I would propose that the right course of action here is to make progress on
> > interoperability first, and metadata privacy second.
> 
> Sounds like a classic loss for privacy.

At first sight it does, and I share your concerns: we should indeed work on minimizing metadata. However, one of the key objectives of IM interoperability is to let users uninstall dominant apps that are run under a profiling and monetization business model and replace them with others, including open source ones, that will protect their in-app usage. In this case, the overall gain for your privacy would be much higher than the loss you would then suffer when metadata for your communications with users that are on other systems are shared with those systems.

-- 
Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange
vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com 
Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy