[Mimi] Design Team progress update

Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Fri, 02 February 2024 21:19 UTC

Return-Path: <rlb@ipv.sx>
X-Original-To: mimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F4AC14F6A4 for <mimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 13:19:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.903
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ipv-sx.20230601.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2XZHeTvou1MJ for <mimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 13:19:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com (mail-il1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C577DC14F691 for <mimi@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 13:19:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-363a47b810aso9336335ab.0 for <mimi@ietf.org>; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 13:19:50 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ipv-sx.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1706908789; x=1707513589; darn=ietf.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Jht9mRkPzY0Mrysm84yCDr9q1+t9zYzUc7o6PcfWaxM=; b=ei5Z1UQ2RQhs0p8fgSP5axhKHLnLrpjeGuVAKteLMofuosucKNOFuArYcDpsGJjI3M 2ZEMVBgDJDAHPj/aNeaGs2c649gC2wI/oQwtK7ihtZYd7BCGM5+KoYbJKoSsjkTz1Idf Q361/mHDtlhFvFxhZmvqCeecVSYYSlHNBeTlTXhqCFrf953HTj2TW2cUA4pjM2iktCcK kX7b1v6/xLqaE2wCHBgHiIRNt4Y7X4WtwyGI4nYYyETCj1ZxAD5ZuSm/haghQRCWLfWs V8eCKnw3hBSNHBt71M4Uq4MEl/t7rhqSDQ91DpByYMc0STq2yr6/kzkKLrWsHiayemHe NPlA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706908789; x=1707513589; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Jht9mRkPzY0Mrysm84yCDr9q1+t9zYzUc7o6PcfWaxM=; b=NBeJ3/E3qk62DWBKQs1fSVJva6/eqfRdL3x5xDCZTAxkCF9W/wuL5N1VUWZfpaPZBP CsXHHzryyClJJ8UfsxDtHbTV8XDJ3I7dFEfkPqc0TFT5gdpJpIjb50I/RgF5GUUN2XPx xJ33P76LS8Yy+2QC1QmNWkNw4sLu3nq7s3NiP4oXr1sH3KZ8gumqplPTJGTxwZDHOO88 M8T6+8nbeJQ03S3sT8fMwEx2qnD6erVk/s2fWkp2LqxQsJTNYJmpNCo2SuGmxvtb25hp 3twrSA7EO7419FNDp9Ru5Le9WSsfy+OUDNYzqVahlA/yOFNqtkkM/Wj9pQpIZHTj5eRZ kS+A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw+w4WVnrenyOLjbaol4znwBjlu6qAW90E3OX3VxifM4OHqPATf mpHQEjwN/1GV5yDwovZHIu0/IA25Wf3eGVeRxn3z2baXHjuynRZy60/eSojQMbgo+oqqvSlCswb hAgdj8QKiQokl6lkIA9h8p+UOOrK9uWUi9rHOFCNUXYmrniMEtXY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFFMcASFb68cXWA8NPDaLooH870+w2+X7JEaUKQd4Wj9/tOujP+axjaoMqAo6yoq9U3OIq3WYaSggWllHpvshc=
X-Received: by 2002:a92:c5ce:0:b0:363:9b16:ba64 with SMTP id s14-20020a92c5ce000000b003639b16ba64mr3553279ilt.28.1706908789326; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 13:19:49 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 11:19:44 -1000
Message-ID: <CAL02cgRv=gqkMPY58GcUX9Sztv1_XzVKwHpPH1s-yt58JPUc9Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: mimi@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000d614706106cac2b"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mimi/LGXX_NnkrF_X4cPApByw9Lgn3w4>
Subject: [Mimi] Design Team progress update
X-BeenThere: mimi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: More Instant Messaging Interoperability <mimi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mimi>, <mailto:mimi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mimi/>
List-Post: <mailto:mimi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mimi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mimi>, <mailto:mimi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 21:19:54 -0000

Hi all,

I wanted to provide a quick update on the status of the design team.  You
may have noticed that we did not do an adoption call as expected after the
last IETF meeting.  That's because we got some early, private feedback that
indicated the call would not succeed.  Over the winter break and into the
new year, we've been working on addressing that feedback.

We've recently merged some PRs on draft-ralston-mimi-protocol that are
intended to have the document do fewer things more clearly.  I would draw
your attention to a few things:

1. The new document is pretty aggressively consolidated and down-scoped.
What was once split between draft-kohbrok-mimi-ds and
draft-ralston-mimi-protocol is getting consolidated in the latter.  We have
removed any mechanism not required to make a basic scenario work, with the
idea that this document should show the overall framework for MIMI, and
then the full functionality can be elaborated by the WG within that
framework.  The new "Example Protocol Flow" should give a good sense of
both the overall framework and concretely how some important scenarios are
realized:
https://bifurcation.github.io/ietf-mimi-protocol/draft-ralston-mimi-protocol.html#name-example-protocol-flow

2. "MLS Application State Sync" - One bit of feedback we got was that our
initial proposal was too deeply intertwined with MLS, and should be using
MLS as more of a black box.  Our feeling was that that is possible, but
requires adding some new functionality to MLS to synchronize application
state.  This mechanism should ultimately be a draft in the MLS working
group, but we've included it here in the spirit of making things readable.
https://bifurcation.github.io/ietf-mimi-protocol/draft-ralston-mimi-protocol.html#name-mls-application-state-synch

The Design Team is still working on aligning the detailed technical content
of the draft with these bigger-picture changes.  We expect to have a more
complete draft out in time for the I-D deadline for March IETF meeting.

Best,
--Richard