Re: [MMUSIC] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp-38: (with DISCUSS)

Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> Wed, 14 August 2019 18:31 UTC

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To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>, "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" <mmusic-chairs@ietf.org>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp@ietf.org>
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From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp-38: (with DISCUSS)
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On 8/14/19 12:54 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
>>>>      2) In 10.2:
>>>>      
>>>>      You removed the following text:
>>>>      
>>>>         o  Name, Email, and Address of a contact person for the
>>>>             registration
>>>>      
>>>>        o  Organization or individuals having the change control
>>>>      
>>>>      I think removing (postal) Address is a good thing. However the
>>>>      rest of this is still needed, as IANA uses
>>>>      this information to decide whether a person/organization is
>>>>      allowed to update an existing registry entry.
>>>>      may be closed down. The authors of the RFC may have moved on.
>>>>     etc
>>>>
>>>> So please consider adding it back or explain why this
>>>> information is not needed for a registry where external
>>>> organizations can add value (without publishing an RFC).
>>>>
>>>> The text already says that "Specification Required" applies to
>>>> new entries.
>>>>
>>>> I am not aware of another registry where we would define
>>>> entry-specific rules.
>>>>      
>>>> Let me know if you still have issues with this. Maybe I
>>>> misunderstood your issue :)
>>> Yes, I still have an issue with this change. The document is now
>>> lacking information needed for IANA to complete registrations.
>>>
>>> When I originally asked about need for "Address", all I wanted
>>> was removal of "Address", not removal of the 2 sentences around it.
>>>
>>>      Yes.
>>>
>>>      But, my comment regarding "Organization or individuals" was that I
>>>      am not aware of any IANA registry where we indicate who
>>>      is allowed to update an entry. Why do you think IANA needs that
>>>      information?
>> This is less of an issue for "Specification Required", but it is certainly
>> an issue for "Expert Review" registries.
>>
>> Consider the following scenario (it has happened several times in the past as far as I know):
>>
>> At some point an item X is registered by userN@organizationY.com.  10 years later the person is no longer working
>> for Organization Y. The person contacts IANA and attempt to change the registration from a new email address
>> userN@gmail.com. If the registry doesn't say whether this was a personal registration (and thus the request
>> should be approved, assuming IANA can prove that this is the same person) or for a company (in which case
>> the change request should be denied and the contact email should be updated to another person representing
>> Organization Y), then making changes/updates becomes difficult.
> Well, in case of "Specification Required" an individual can't just say that he/she wants to change something.
>
>> There were similar problems recently when a specification was originally developed by an organization and later on was taken as a work item in an SDO.
>>
>> Anyway, if you want to make updates to registration easier, Contant and Change Controller should be included in an IANA registration template.
> To me this kind of "Change control" is something that should be discussed with a wider audience. Individual drafts should not make their own rules. Is there any registry that have these kind of change control rules?


It's not unheard of. See, e.g., the tables at 
https://www.iana.org/assignments/oauth-parameters/oauth-parameters.xhtml

The problems that Alexey cites have caused real issues in the past. 
Given that this is an administrative issue rather than a technical one, 
I'm comfortable taking an executive decision to fix the text in an RFC 
Editor's note per Alexey's comment, and sending the document into the queue.


> In addition, there would need to be some guidance on what information to provide. For example, if IETF WG X defines an entry, I don't think the change control can be given to WG X, because WG X may not exist in 10 years. So, I assume the change control would be given to IESG?


Yes, that is what is generally done. The IESG typically ensures this 
during its review. As this is a pan-IANA issue, it's not generally 
treated as a special consideration on a table-by-table basis.


rfc4422.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc4505.txt:      Author/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc4616.txt:   Author/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc4642.txt:   o  Change Controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;.
rfc4643.txt:   o  Change Controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;.
rfc4643.txt:   o  Change Controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;.
rfc4644.txt:   o  Change Controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;.
rfc4752.txt:   Owner/Change controller:  iesg@ietf.org
rfc5023.txt:   Author/Change controller:  IETF (iesg@ietf.org) Internet 
Engineering
rfc5023.txt:   Author/Change controller:  IETF (iesg@ietf.org) Internet 
Engineering
rfc5023.txt:   Author/Change controller:  IETF (iesg@ietf.org) Internet 
Engineering
rfc5258.txt:       Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5258.txt:       Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5258.txt:       Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5258.txt:       Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5258.txt:       Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5258.txt:       Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5465.txt:   Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5738.txt:       Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5738.txt:       Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5738.txt:       Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5801.txt:     Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc5802.txt:   Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc5802.txt:   Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc5802.txt:   Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc5819.txt:   Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc6030.txt:   Change controller:  The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc6048.txt:   o  Change Controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;.
rfc6066.txt:   Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc6154.txt:   Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc6154.txt:   Owner/Change controller: iesg@ietf.org
rfc6335.txt:           | Assignee           | IESG <iesg@ietf.org>        |
rfc6335.txt:           | Assignee           | IESG <iesg@ietf.org>        |
rfc6402.txt:   Assignee: iesg@ietf.org
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6477.txt:   Author/change controller: IESG (iesg@ietf.org) on behalf 
of the IETF
rfc6641.txt:   Assignee (REQUIRED)  IESG (iesg@ietf.org)
rfc6694.txt:      Author/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; (on 
behalf of the
rfc6694.txt:   o  Contact/change controller:  IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; (on 
behalf of the
rfc6717.txt:     Assignee:           IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc6733.txt:      Assignee:             IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc6758.txt:   Author/change controller: Alexey Melnikov / IESG 
(iesg@ietf.org)
rfc6758.txt:   Author/change controller: Alexey Melnikov / IESG 
(iesg@ietf.org)
rfc6764.txt:   Assignee:  IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc6764.txt:   Assignee:  IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc6764.txt:   Assignee:  IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc6764.txt:   Assignee:  IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc6787.txt:   Author/Change controller:  IESG, iesg@ietf.org
rfc6940.txt:           | Change controller:         | IETF <iesg@ietf.org>; |
rfc6940.txt:   | Registration Owner          | IETF 
<iesg@ietf.org>                |
rfc7030.txt:       Change controller: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7055.txt:   Owner/Change controller:  iesg@ietf.org
rfc7193.txt:   Change controller: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7230.txt:   The change controller is: "IETF (iesg@ietf.org) - Internet
rfc7232.txt:   The change controller is: "IETF (iesg@ietf.org) - Internet
rfc7233.txt:   The change controller is: "IETF (iesg@ietf.org) - Internet
rfc7233.txt:   The change controller is: "IETF (iesg@ietf.org) - Internet
rfc7234.txt:   The change controller is: "IETF (iesg@ietf.org) - Internet
rfc7235.txt:   The change controller is: "IETF (iesg@ietf.org) - Internet
rfc7510.txt:      Assignee: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7510.txt:      Assignee: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7512.txt:      Author/Change Controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7532.txt:   Author/Change Controller:  IESG (iesg@ietf.org)
rfc7585.txt:      Assignee: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7589.txt:      Assignee:               IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7639.txt:   Change Controller:  IETF (iesg@ietf.org) - Internet 
Engineering Task
rfc7677.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7677.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7677.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7677.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7808.txt:   Assignee:  IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7808.txt:   Assignee:  IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7838.txt:   The change controller is: "IETF (iesg@ietf.org) -- Internet
rfc7846.txt:   Change controller:  IESG (iesg@ietf.org)
rfc7852.txt:      Change controller: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7852.txt:      Change controller: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7852.txt:      Change controller: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7852.txt:      Change controller: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc7852.txt:      Change controller: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8030.txt:   The change controller is: "IETF (iesg@ietf.org) - Internet
rfc8054.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8054.txt:   o  Change Controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8071.txt:   Assignee:               IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8071.txt:   Assignee:               IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8071.txt:   Assignee:               IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8086.txt:         Assignee: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8086.txt:         Assignee: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8226.txt:    Change controller: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8314.txt:     Assignee: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8314.txt:     Assignee: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8314.txt:     Assignee: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8315.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8315.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8315.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8315.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8315.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8315.txt:      Owner/Change controller: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8440.txt:   Owner/Change controller:  IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8460.txt:   Change controller: Internet Engineering Task Force 
(iesg@ietf.org).
rfc8460.txt:   Change controller: Internet Engineering Task Force 
(iesg@ietf.org).
rfc8555.txt:   Change controller: IETF <iesg@ietf.org>;
rfc8572.txt:     Assignee:                IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;

/a