Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle ICE update and a new SIP usage draft.]
Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> Sun, 10 March 2013 16:55 UTC
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Message-ID: <513CBAE3.6050208@jitsi.org>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:54:59 -0400
From: Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org>
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To: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>
References: <20130128193921.20420.53308.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <51094C89.7020302@jitsi.org> <5113C177.3000507@cisco.com>
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Cc: MMUSIC IETF WG <mmusic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle ICE update and a new SIP usage draft.]
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Hey Flemming, We did have an intense discussion about parts of this message and in preparation for Tuesday, I thought it would be good to address the others. Sorry this took so long! Answers inline: On 07.02.13, 10:00, Flemming Andreasen wrote: > Hi > > I took a look the trickle-ice draft and have a couple of questions/comments: > > 1) Section 1 says > <quote> > This specification does not define usage of trickle ICE with any > specific signalling protocol, contrary to [RFC5245] which contains a > usage for ICE wht SIP. Such usages would have to be specified in > separate documents. > </quote> > however you do define it specifically using SDP and Offer/Answer (I > believe). It would be worthwhile calling that out. Well, the sentence immediately following your quotation does say: Trickle ICE does however reuse and build upon the SDP syntax defined by vanilla ICE. Doesn't this address your concern? > 2) Section 5.1 says > <quote> > As mentioned earlier in this section, Offers and Answers can contain > any set of candidates, which means that a trickle ICE session > description MAY contain no candidates at all. In such cases the > agent would still need to place an address in the "c=" line(s). If > the use of a host address there is undesirable (e.g. for privacy > reasons), the agent MAY set the connection address to 0.0.0.0. In > this case it MUST also set the port number to 1. There is no need to > include a fictitious 0.0.0.0 candidate when doing so. > <quote> > I had to read this several times before I (think) I understood that when > you say "the agent MAY set the connection address to 0.0.0.0", you are > referring to the connection address in the "a=candidate" attribute, not > the "c=" line. Can you clarify and rephrase accordingly. But we are indeed talking about the c= line. Could you please be a bit more explicit about the part you find confusing? > 3) Section 9.1 > I'm confused about this whole section and it's premise that > "a=candidate" attributes and media descriptions are not clearly linked. > The "a=candidate" attribute is defined as a media-level attribute only > and describes as such in RFC 5245, so I must be missing something here. This is about trickled candidates. We say that when sending them they should be encoded with the usual syntax: a=candidate:2 1 UDP 1658497328 198.51.100.33 5000 typ host Yet, this syntax does not provide a relation to an m-line. The draft says that this relation should happen through an MID (we agreed to ditch reliance on m-lines during the interim) but the exact syntax is left to the usages. > 4) Section 9.2. Rather than talking about sending "end of candidates" > via "the signalling channel" (which is not defined), could we change > this to say and "end of candidates" need to be sent to the peer, and the > only mechanism defined to do so in this document is through an O/A > exchange (new exchange or answer to an offer) ? To me this sounds confusing. As if we were saying: you can only send end-of-candidates in an offer or an answer, which is clearly not the case. In the general case end-of-candidates will be send through some non-O/A mechanism specific to the various signalling protocols. > 5) Section 14 (Example) > The exchange of the "additional candidates" does not use an O/A > exchange. Correct, it does not. > As for comment 4), this assumes some other un-defined > mechanism somewhere Right. Just as the entire transport of the trickled candidates. >- would it be useful to show it as an O/A exchange > as well, but note that other mechanisms may be defined ? Well the only way you could put end-of-candidates in an Offer or an Answer is if you are not planning on trickling any candidates after it. Using this for the example would kind of defeat its purpose. > 6) Section A.1 (MID/Stream Indicates in SDP) > I'm still unclear on this (per comment 3). Hopefully my comment made it clearer. Let me know if not. Cheers, Emil > > > Thanks > > -- Flemming (as Individual) > > > > On 1/30/13 11:38 AM, Emil Ivov wrote: >> Hey all, >> >> Justin, Eric and I have just submitted an update to the trickle ICE >> draft, accommodating comments from Atlanta: >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-00 >> >> More details about the changes here: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-00#appendix-B >> >> Diff2: >> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-rescorla-mmusic-ice-trickle-01&difftype=--html&submit=Go!&url2=draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-00 >> >> During the MMUSIC presentation and the mailing list discussions it was >> also pointed out that it is important for this work to happen in >> parallel with a SIP usage for trickle ICE. Enrico, Christer and I have >> therefore submitted the following document: >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-sip-00 >> >> As always, comments are welcome! >> >> Cheers, >> Emil >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-00.txt >> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:39:21 -0800 >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> To: emcho@jitsi.org >> CC: justin@uberti.name, ekr@rtfm.com >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Emil Ivov and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Filename: draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice >> Revision: 00 >> Title: Trickle ICE: Incremental Provisioning of Candidates for the >> Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) Protocol >> Creation date: 2013-01-28 >> WG ID: Individual Submission >> Number of pages: 20 >> URL: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-00.txt >> Status: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice >> Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-00 >> >> >> Abstract: >> This document describes an extension to the Interactive Connectivity >> Establishment (ICE) protocol that allows ICE agents to send and >> receive candidates incrementally rather than exchanging complete >> lists. With such incremental provisioning, ICE agents can begin >> connectivity checks while they are still gathering candidates and >> considerably shorten the time necessary for ICE processing to >> complete. >> >> The above mechanism is also referred to as "trickle ICE". >> >> >> >> >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mmusic mailing list >> mmusic@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >> . >> > -- https://jitsi.org
- [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE update and a new SIP usage d… Emil Ivov
- [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle ICE up… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Ted Hardie
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Ted Hardie
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Ted Hardie
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Ted Hardie
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Ari Keränen
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE comments [Re: Trickle IC… Emil Ivov