[Mod-discuss] Not a one-way door
Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com> Sun, 31 August 2025 14:59 UTC
Return-Path: <tbray@textuality.com>
X-Original-To: mod-discuss@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: mod-discuss@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C44F5B5E1C1 for <mod-discuss@mail2.ietf.org>; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 07:59:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.601
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=textuality.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vnCe2qua5nAU for <mod-discuss@mail2.ietf.org>; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 07:59:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x1033.google.com (mail-pj1-x1033.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 646925B5E1BA for <mod-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 07:59:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x1033.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-327d47a0e3eso2199145a91.3 for <mod-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 07:59:08 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=textuality.com; s=google; t=1756652347; x=1757257147; darn=ietf.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mDVtXhZLB4PY10kZJaLdo4rFBL8rinGLYsERCNmEd5M=; b=ILqv7lLlkhBXbKzrI70ufW2jFWutB0Zky2vxigQaSj5tG8mz0IyKjQNItPDAOVt0IZ Yzy0ogbC+qWBWUwBI0Kn317YrRw2OknWkTjUr5ydGLlrLGHDlnyf+/Q3/DIt/szblPGU 92cqQqOzujevRFfH1yM9K9A3KtE2teaCZpzwg=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1756652347; x=1757257147; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mDVtXhZLB4PY10kZJaLdo4rFBL8rinGLYsERCNmEd5M=; b=rnw25w0VX5XsDoKcEhDxp2kWx7GeuDzbGAW/SocdEAvNbFYqAzGytFd1LH6Bm9zh+5 vzWzVDjCbXJPMep3Jhjd6i9Yw9g5+baAmYgl6BwqN3m4sUAQr9Wr/SOc/V/sOddC3srB /xrXnQxKakqJSdiTZVl5qsXbjVVN4Qwy/p9hl4nKvb7xC1w0QeTTYFGhetI0bfxyGby/ hhQYDUrNvD0B3l+a3nkBW1RzYyY5Yf3oIQQlJprUeCpy7axTI64FL6M9TCwsDntlmjsl DBMxjY8YkNq7JZb+WeX7R5A8Qdu2LvHnavC6+Me7iZwDyxij9kjpq9rwz13uFIo5unA/ GGBw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwYcw0x+jEwlI6r8kip8wZhqkdgrEonWwCz+LGU2TUIQZnxSRkc RrFpS97vEubej4+ELdrcD6SSDOFOESikwuP4T7N52/I5ai4cT9ja8rmFiDZaTA1934RQYiLlnIa CTPrxJsNpnHxYDaube5jXQNxFfwTWUlbUxIqXLZsMGZCxhPOnkxoU+BQ=
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu29v/YZXccKKWIkscb7OXyx+GhWi6fCXmlb6wIS59XjbbiudwhphQqGQSaTS1 kQDEJnD+VRqF07qxQTRIdYUuBJUUjdfhDU10y5ZdPD8Q/+Qdb4/8S2sOtDJUtDTxuJhyY4R+q9K dmZXKby7HLtkVHdZE7ZEdu9w2b7tniuEdRvUQ+zqYF9Xt3SGOeDlG2stJ5xMJ6TIDioCAj0G5+A Au/oVcnlvltoNufa84Ed8R+6Zm8YbsUQ8hSyqRF
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHF5TOo951OWEz/0ztQ+D2mlOOBpuxv4NaGnFHFkx6GwW8nsCLgtAeXjMLgr+kSPUzLA7DR1EO4epYu74BaZy8=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1e01:b0:327:e34e:eb15 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-3281541274cmr6361115a91.2.1756652347323; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 07:59:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 1064022179695 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 07:59:05 -0700
Received: from 1064022179695 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 31 Aug 2025 07:59:02 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mimestream 1.7.3)
From: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2025 07:59:05 -0700
X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXxNmVNYZk8Xar3qn_LpawAK-rdnIGGu7NFIbad78JOyWUWQLYt0-CWkqAw
Message-ID: <CAHBU6iv2YORPTkyKki8w2u2et_U5i0rOJC88gWxVbso2bt7U7Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Moderation Discussion <mod-discuss@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000280a5c063daa7f22"
Message-ID-Hash: 22V32E2Z6BMCN4MITECV6I3OHLTTAABV
X-Message-ID-Hash: 22V32E2Z6BMCN4MITECV6I3OHLTTAABV
X-MailFrom: tbray@textuality.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-0; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-1; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-2; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-3; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-4; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-5; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-6; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Mod-discuss] Not a one-way door
List-Id: Discussion list for IETF moderation policies and practices <mod-discuss.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mod-discuss/DZpixSTb5ngJCODIKBOXsFUJHK8>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mod-discuss>
List-Help: <mailto:mod-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:mod-discuss-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:mod-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:mod-discuss-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:mod-discuss-leave@ietf.org>
I’ve read the current draft and have been considering what I’d like to suggest adjusting and fine-tuning. Upon further consideration, my input condenses into two words: “Ship it.” Here’s why. Whatever you think of Amazon’s culture or ethics, its management process has proven to work well; speaking personally, it was the best-managed place I ever worked, and that includes the places where I was CEO. One of the central theses of that process is about one-way and two-way doors. If you’re facing a design decision, think about whether it’s reversible; i.e. if you turns out to have been wrong, can you shift to Plan B? One-way door decisions need to be carefully considered at whatever length is necessary. For two-way doors, the cost and delay of arguing about it pretty quickly becomes greater than the cost of getting it wrong and then shifting to Plan B later. Most IETF products are one-way doors, not easily reversible, if only because they get blasted into hardware and firmware and there you are. This justifies the pretty-heavyweight IETF process with draft adoption, versioning, last-call, etc etc etc. Modpod isn’t like that. The chance that the current draft gets everything right rounds to zero. It is however, in my opinion, pretty good and likely to have got quite a few things right. The chance that we can, by further arguing, anticipate and fix all the problems also rounds to zero, because nobody can predict the future, in particular the future of community conversations. I mean, who knows, maybe Bernstein is right and a cabal of evil BigCo minions will use it to hurl thunderbolts of censorship to suppress anything against their corporate interests. (I don’t believe this for a second, but who can say it’s impossible?) There’s only one way to find out. This is not a one-way door. Finish up the current cleanup activities, publish it, and when we learn what it really got wrong, iterate. It’s not blasted into any firmware. -Tim
- [Mod-discuss] Not a one-way door Tim Bray