[Mod-discuss] Re: Review of IETF Community Moderation

"D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to> Wed, 17 September 2025 11:37 UTC

Return-Path: <djb-dsn2-1406711340.7506@cr.yp.to>
X-Original-To: mod-discuss@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: mod-discuss@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEE0C64322F2 for <mod-discuss@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Sep 2025 04:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.197
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iMjNsj7Z3MGi for <mod-discuss@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Sep 2025 04:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from salsa.cs.uic.edu (salsa.cs.uic.edu [131.193.32.108]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D2A564322ED for <mod-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Sep 2025 04:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 1446750 invoked by uid 1010); 17 Sep 2025 11:36:58 -0000
Received: from unknown (unknown) by unknown with QMTP; 17 Sep 2025 11:36:58 -0000
Received: (qmail 3166 invoked by uid 1000); 17 Sep 2025 11:36:50 -0000
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2025 11:36:50 -0000
Message-ID: <20250917113650.3164.qmail@cr.yp.to>
From: "D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to>
To: mod-discuss@ietf.org
Mail-Followup-To: mod-discuss@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <LV8PR11MB853635770DAA6849672728E7B517A@LV8PR11MB8536.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID-Hash: KQYPXIUOQST66X72SAK5QO3D27FHXU5E
X-Message-ID-Hash: KQYPXIUOQST66X72SAK5QO3D27FHXU5E
X-MailFrom: djb-dsn2-1406711340.7506@cr.yp.to
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-0; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-1; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-2; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-3; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-4; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-5; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-6; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-7; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-8; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-9; header-match-mod-discuss.ietf.org-10; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Mod-discuss] Re: Review of IETF Community Moderation
List-Id: Discussion list for IETF moderation policies and practices <mod-discuss.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mod-discuss/P406W8IGP-573YKmxsJRK34EQIk>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mod-discuss>
List-Help: <mailto:mod-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:mod-discuss-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:mod-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:mod-discuss-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:mod-discuss-leave@ietf.org>

Rob Wilton (rwilton) writes:
> I find it frustrating if a
> participant keeps bringing up anti-trust discussion despite being
> repeatedly told (by the people who have the authority to make the
> correct decision) that it is out of scope of discussion for the WG,

It's within scope. It's an objection to the current MODPOD draft. The
chairs do not have authority to censor this objection.

Censorship and other forms of evading the objection are _disrupting_ the
following mandated WG procedure from RFC 2418: "Disputes are possible at
various stages during the IETF process. As much as possible the process
is designed so that compromises can be made, and genuine consensus
achieved; however, there are times when even the most reasonable and
knowledgeable people are unable to agree. To achieve the goals of
openness and fairness, such conflicts must be resolved by a process of
open review and discussion."

> such discussions need to happen on the dedicated mailing list (which
> has been provided)

Please name the "dedicated mailing list" that you're talking about, and
please quote the IETF _policy_ that you claim imposes this requirement.
Thanks in advance.

---D. J. Bernstein