[Moq] Top Tracks and SSTS (or ABR in general)
Ian Swett <ianswett@google.com> Mon, 27 July 2026 20:10 UTC
Return-Path: <ianswett@google.com>
X-Original-To: moq@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: moq@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 755E311F71E8F for <moq@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2026 13:10:29 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1785183029; bh=hb+ilGVlQSyDtncWiZyH/P68784hUJf3XAdO2e4ctOI=; h=From:Date:Subject:To:Cc; b=dgTQsSdG+C6zjhJOm1PN8lzmhPo81FZar1QjgmCjS07y+xIxd9P4U5dWUalAJbWHG OqfLE3OQIqdLrfPl0x+S3GbWc94kC882gKO2QFpv5aL0lwXNhAlSl2j4ikRXgHSIbi PYcrMJWYN5CgVGsgOFP3NlaZIVdkgIH9tssY1zsA=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.59
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a9PhQRZ8DRIt for <moq@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2026 13:10:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pg1-x533.google.com (mail-pg1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15D6411F71E88 for <moq@ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2026 13:10:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pg1-x533.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-ca12086c06eso2450096a12.0 for <moq@ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2026 13:10:29 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1785183022; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; b=Wg5gh9At0+oB7vYdolJnL23ujgJHzll0ThlSd8eR8++y9pmCd/zNx7Rbj4+KpdwgyX 3vG4BSrVj+jKDCBZEm6+nPQixZSSzF/oZOaZOXUqfIgajAguyUDsTf8ZURxde9q3BiWI 2e6r12TGNty4FbroEkuEp9jzG58ausq3AadxKmqkXGY2+PkQRRdlMoP5hOhss/PTN8o3 fvXBwar8FK9zh1foBdgM3wu6yPObvMXpNhbF7dx3EyefatTHtGAGEvkJQ5WHZOHCSDWW 3i6XQx1QWuHSRA6O28U0z7pMzt6f/K5OgGwZ3vZM8LJQaKfdXqLRhj/ueSI/pOEUoNb1 z/+A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20260327; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=hb+ilGVlQSyDtncWiZyH/P68784hUJf3XAdO2e4ctOI=; fh=AUSKnTW8DGYgohCV1zxFz3Fv1rZIdx+omsYzY16dMlQ=; b=k24/jedyIHHi7nVVmSQ+SqyEZ52yUhuTAjpUgsqPkORd5we36VTWSroZ3IcstMP5cT v3N2LQXPbgwqWhGOQZUxJYBEKOQ6zsAzS60S5Zd6ZsVXlqdnAdzQ4Bd4W7sj5Xtz73WJ bC7zls7Y6zOeU8m4eMe40KnuoSwRslLDNwoU16jkYw45QOnGs8dheqXT/VtJYyv+4NU3 wH4fwYRphPOY7wYfpWlKJKH+tw1Nnv2p0l8i2YcmNVmSf31V55O+6j3ZXJnbIytfo3rD efl4H6CDNabqidIr7rjypb/5t2nnM2wSs+UFjgrPa7p4PUWn+0h5bh6ydzEX2aqpcFiA YW6A==; darn=ietf.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20251104; t=1785183022; x=1785787822; darn=ietf.org; h=content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to:content-type; bh=hb+ilGVlQSyDtncWiZyH/P68784hUJf3XAdO2e4ctOI=; b=NBUaiZEkAkFO6CPp900qt0Sd5Da5lGpSL0fJ8+vbVLPNRxUQQjRVYbmu1quWAGyCb9 q39qImMQ4+xagRjYarbdoIkKfeFXweYnFdhTJ8gIoCKNjBf8EcNXpr19DNFi7X9RAiTp VhoKNQP4vopx96WjrZnOVKMGO4sRuoyEsUL3yfbuDQQ4E9fEHXGJowxJ739D3jYqqBoH Z6YagKeqkPsIftSKnGKr7MZRfDbLmuSfQaqOrV8+uqUhnVPEFctv7YW8yu73cF9+O8Sv w6eD+qGfRhFcNtFx3K/poIongeheLoPwKcNGp8KTeJ29kWulDX1WVlnR7ccI4gJmk/7M tTmg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1785183022; x=1785787822; h=content-type:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version :x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to:content-type; bh=hb+ilGVlQSyDtncWiZyH/P68784hUJf3XAdO2e4ctOI=; b=aip6K41G9I/VBHr7my1cNWPOCt2xRh9ynh1Cjq/1PeE4y+hGUFz87cJJy0GIfWk7kj qHVbFp0qapEzBjuLdp+OI7ymZ+m4Pk+OMBStu3ZTS7ZO42DPHveigunqZfWAqDkSeQ17 yiPWeADVmzCsQgw/wyGQzgROCUrGq2v2OiI327fizI4BB6xkvcAVqSrD1aCZGEvwhu9/ QDTNRxybGUVZEvNZLD1tPIUDdBYyVjvhMtu0y0GYDm04VgCQBOspPwH3wE6WWlzF9q/W T3V4WhAtgBtknKGRwFHShH862iFBOH7WkCiJu1XYs2V2hFuPFnxTfOrtUuh2AJW/lLdE KXww==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwWoRuQ6EiKBrO2Heltgn1maI9j5MVcZAIj/wuynmwtY/XAZysl e77TvbRvvg3DRhjGHAXrfTOBj9SG8M6w+O8xGyTqrr+Vggcq9OdhqIA7rymUz2EiygSo0EOG189 ++dRDG60CBJLBy/TYU0XNljRyhqer/UC0dBrjKH0dhuHrL98AI7dmvQgj
X-Gm-Gg: AR+sD12SyZYy8ELv7YMHMyGbTDbmryDz5kVMH1khKSZ0PnaKlK5G/oKfD16XVVho5GY bEYOztoZakOg81L1owMgIqmM8IDq0Wml9eLgsfU3O+/wa1lWJ3mX3zTIv9NvbNesSfpspsrfpxF TBeEi69USYMLM5ZJRLbZMoo1xNJwaEhd6omIjp6bFHI5YdoDRW8j0RtxemSi5/hau7oISBdxoRP grTrBN+ucLk/dUaBiiGrgusUzx9lDpp5k83kEn+v+wdgFSWp5DIYk7SauhRZYq8ckboTc2C0yU6 96AKHtdx8ZwJ35Bylzz62vlTnesjAXWR8yGeqtLvJn1rDA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:244b:b0:3bf:6c08:fb93 with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-3c67df803b0mr9254383637.53.1785183021321; Mon, 27 Jul 2026 13:10:21 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: Ian Swett <ianswett@google.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2026 16:10:09 -0400
X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mwFAAenzr_hF9GYEWJAIX1ilaWeplt3Zl7Z_QqkGztkpIQjLy2kJzD_O3o
Message-ID: <CAKcm_gPtCrFf7dydGyahfP2ujUp+kqvX3UN1qXoE+mWiQwvuwQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: MOQ Mailing List <moq@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d9bfa806579d4f32"
Message-ID-Hash: SOLCDYS22C26FAAM5XIXRJ64NJIRXAE5
X-Message-ID-Hash: SOLCDYS22C26FAAM5XIXRJ64NJIRXAE5
X-MailFrom: ianswett@google.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: Mo Zanaty <mzanaty@cisco.com>, "Law, Will" <wilaw@akamai.com>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Moq] Top Tracks and SSTS (or ABR in general)
List-Id: Media over QUIC <moq.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/moq/2unKZrGYwvhNzPkqioijyv1DTpQ>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/moq>
List-Help: <mailto:moq-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:moq-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:moq@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:moq-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:moq-leave@ietf.org>
I reviewed the most recent Top Tracks PR, and I continue to wonder exactly how it will work with SSTS (or another ABR algorithm). At a high level, I believe I know what one might want, but the mechanisms to achieve it are unclear to me. I realize there are use cases for Top Tracks without ABR, but for the VC usecase, ABR seems essential? Specific questions: 1) How do you send the correct SUBSCRIBE_TRACKS initially? Do you use a Track Property Filter to filter for the ideal resolution, and combine that with Top Tracks? 2) How do you ensure the focal viewport gets higher priority when deciding which video feed to downswitch? 3) If a client pins a video feed other than the VC's default, how does prioritization work? 4) Are there any demos of Top Tracks and SSTS working together, even if it's a simulation and not the public internet? I asked the Meet team to describe what they do today. That may or may not be proprietary, but it doesn't matter because it's sufficiently complex that I can't summarize it anyway. I'm sure it's complex for very good reasons, but it doesn't give me confidence we'll design a comparable solution in MoQ soon. Ian
- [Moq] Top Tracks and SSTS (or ABR in general) Ian Swett
- [Moq] Re: Top Tracks and SSTS (or ABR in general) Yu You (Nokia)
- [Moq] Re: Top Tracks and SSTS (or ABR in general) Law, Will