Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5?
Danny Mayer <mayer@pdmconsulting.net> Sun, 31 July 2022 02:56 UTC
Return-Path: <mayer@pdmconsulting.net>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A144C15C51E for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 30 Jul 2022 19:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 36ZgIEIu5Lin for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 30 Jul 2022 19:56:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from chessie.everett.org (chessie.everett.org [66.220.13.234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C910EC15C51C for <ntp@ietf.org>; Sat, 30 Jul 2022 19:56:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.156] (pool-108-26-202-2.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [108.26.202.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by chessie.everett.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4LwQqs6z2zzMP0j; Sun, 31 Jul 2022 02:56:09 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <a5e8e165-08ed-596e-76b6-072573977e94@pdmconsulting.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 22:56:07 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com>, ntp@ietf.org
References: <YuFTPU4kvL+4teZO@localhost>
From: Danny Mayer <mayer@pdmconsulting.net>
In-Reply-To: <YuFTPU4kvL+4teZO@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/k61chYKgXXoSVi5rip2WdiW9eWI>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5?
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Network Time Protocol <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 02:56:25 -0000
On 7/27/22 11:01 AM, Miroslav Lichvar wrote: > There are some very simple devices like clocks or security cameras > that use NTP for synchronization, but they need to know the time zone > in order to display local time. Selecting the time zone and/or > updating the data may be difficult. I have heard of some cases where > people gave up on the configuration and instead patched their NTP > server to compensate for the offset between the default time zone and > local time. > > I'm wondering if NTPv5 could better support this use case. In my draft > there already is UTC, TAI, UT1, and leap-smeared UTC. Local time could > be the 5th timescale to be requested by the client. The timescale > offset field could be the offset to UTC in minutes (in seconds it > would not fit the 16-bit field for some zones). > > The assumption is that the client doesn't know where it is, but it > expects the server (e.g. from the DHCP NTP option) to be in the same > time zone. The software would be simplified and no time-specific > configuration is required. > > Does that seem reasonable? > This makes no sense at all. NTP only knows about UTC. All major operating systems store timestamps in UTC. Time-zones are just a display issue. The software displaying the timestamps is responsible for displaying timestamps in the appropriate way. You are incorrect in stating that no time-specific confguration is required. NTP doesn't know where a client is nor does it have any way of telling. The client does know. Don't expect NTP to deal with the Olson time-zone database. Danny
- [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Doug Arnold
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Paul Gear
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Martin Burnicki
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? David Venhoek
- [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTPv5? Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTPv5? Miroslav Lichvar
- [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Local time in NTPv5? Ulrich Windl
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTPv5? Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTP… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTP… Ulrich Windl
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time … Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTP… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTP… Hal Murray
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Danny Mayer
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Warner Losh
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTP… Danny Mayer
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTP… James
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTP… Steve Allen
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTP… Hal Murray
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time … Ulrich Windl
- Re: [Ntp] Local time in NTPv5? Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time in NTP… Miroslav Lichvar
- [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: Local time in NTPv5? Ulrich Windl
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Antw: Re: Antw: [EXT] Local time … Ulrich Windl