Re: [nvo3] When is an overlay not a VPN?

[Yakov Rekhter <[e-mail]>]

Peter,

> Hey John, thanks but I do understand label stacks and that the labels manag=
> ed by P routers are not per VPN and that 'normally' they exist as a pre-req=
> uisit to all VPNs. Of course if you chose not to run over LDP but put the 
> service labels over IP, then things start to look pretty similar between an =
> overlay and the existing IETF VPN technolgies.

Note that an overlay does use tunnels. With this in mind, can an overlay 
use MPLS for creating tunnels ?

Yakov.
  
> Since Adrian was looking for the 'difference' this is why I highlighted 'so=
> me' involvement by the underlay ;) .. otherwise I've got nothing that can b=
> e used in a couple  sentence elevator pitch ;)
> 
> Is it fair to  presume your position is that there is no difference when MP=
> LS VPNs run over IP?
> 
> Peter Ashwood-Smith
> 
> ________________________________
> From: John E Drake [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 4:20 PM
> To: AshwoodsmithPeter; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: [nvo3] When is an overlay not a VPN?
> 
> Peter,
> 
> The VPN labels for a given VPN are distributed only to the PEs in that VPN,=
>  and any intervening RRs.    if you are using MPLS/LDP, the only labels tha=
> t are being distributed are those for each PE's loopback address, which are=
>  probably also being used for normal IP forwarding.  If you don't want to u=
> se MPLS,  you can use non-MPLS tunnels between the PEs, so that MPLS is use=
> d strictly between the PEs to mux/demux packets.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> From: AshwoodsmithPeter [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:06 PM
> To: John E Drake; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: [nvo3] When is an overlay not a VPN?
> 
> Hey John,
> 
> Yeah but the P's have to get involved for ALL the VPN's via LDP ;) .. which=
>  was what I was getting at with 'some'. That's definitely not a property of=
>  'no'
> 
> Otherwise they are the same and then presumably Adrian has a problem ;)
> 
> Peter
> 
> ________________________________
> From: John E Drake [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:53 PM
> To: AshwoodsmithPeter; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; nvo=
> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: [nvo3] When is an overlay not a VPN?
> 
> Peter,
> 
> I don't think that is correct.  In existing L2/L3 VPN technologies, the VPN=
>  awareness is restricted to the PEs.  In NV03, the VPN awareness is restric=
> ted to the NV03 edge nodes (aka PEs).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> From: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:nvo3-boun=
> [e-mail]] On Behalf Of AshwoodsmithPeter
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:41 PM
> To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:n=
> [e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: [nvo3] When is an overlay not a VPN?
> 
> 
> Adrian,
> 
> Ok, veeeeery broadly....
> 
> *                    The term 'VPN', as used in the IETF requires 'some' in=
> volvement by the underlying IP network.
> 
> *                    The term 'Overlay', as used in this context requires '=
> no' involvement by the underlying IP network.
> 
> Of course the degree of 'some' v.s. 'no' is open for debate but that's prob=
> ably the simplest high level view of the terminology difference + baggage I=
>  can think of.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:nvo3-boun=
> [e-mail]] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:44 AM
> To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
> Subject: [nvo3] When is an overlay not a VPN?
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am reviewing the nvo3 draft charter for the IESG telechat this week and I
> stumbled on the distinction between "overlay" and "VPN".
> 
> Would someone like to risk two sentences of definition that allows me to se=
> e the
> difference?
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nvo3 mailing list
> [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
> 
> 
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> <body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
> <div class=3D"Section1">
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Hey John, thanks but I do understand l=
> abel stacks and that the labels managed by P routers are not per VPN and th=
> at &#8216;normally&#8217; they exist
>  as a pre-requisit to all VPNs. Of course if you chose not to run over LDP =
> but put the service labels over IP, then things start to look pretty simila=
> r between an overlay and the existing IETF VPN technolgies.<o:p></o:p></spa=
> n></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Since
> <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Adrian</st1:place></st1:City> =
> was looking for the &#8216;difference&#8217; this is why I highlighted &#82=
> 16;some&#8217; involvement by the underlay ;) .. otherwise I&#8217;ve got n=
> othing that can be used in a couple &nbsp;sentence elevator pitch ;)<o:p></=
> o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Is it fair to &nbsp;presume your posit=
> ion is that there is no difference when MPLS VPNs run over IP?
> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Peter Ashwood-Smith<o:p></o:p></span><=
> /font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <div>
> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font=
>  size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">
> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" tabindex=3D"-1">
> </span></font></div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f=
> ont-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2=
> " face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> John=
>  E Drake [mailto:[e-mail]]
> <br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, April 11, 2=
> 012 4:20 PM<br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> AshwoodsmithPeter; adria=
> [e-mail]; [e-mail]<br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: [nvo3] When is =
> an overlay not a VPN?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
> </div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Peter,<o=
> :p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">The VPN =
> labels for a given VPN are distributed only to the PEs in that VPN, and any=
>  intervening RRs.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;if you are using MPLS/LDP,
>  the only labels that are being distributed are those for each PE&#8217;s l=
> oopback address, which are probably also being used for normal IP forwardin=
> g.&nbsp; If you don&#8217;t want to use MPLS, &nbsp;you can use non-MPLS tu=
> nnels between the PEs, so that MPLS is used strictly between
>  the PEs to mux/demux packets.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<=
> o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">John<o:p=
> ></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Sent fro=
> m my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
> 4.0pt">
> <div>
> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
> 0in 0in">
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f=
> ont-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2=
> " face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> Ashw=
> oodsmithPeter [mailto:[e-mail]]
> <br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, April 11, 2=
> 012 1:06 PM<br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> John E Drake; adrian@old=
> dog.co.uk; [e-mail]<br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: [nvo3] When is =
> an overlay not a VPN?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> </div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Hey John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Yeah but the P&#8217;s have to get inv=
> olved for ALL the VPN&#8217;s via LDP ;) .. which was what I was getting at=
>  with &#8216;some&#8217;. That&#8217;s definitely
>  not a property of &#8216;no&#8217;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Otherwise they are the same and then p=
> resumably
> <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Adrian</st1:place></st1:City> =
> has a problem ;)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Peter<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span=
>  style=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <div>
> <div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><font=
>  size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">
> <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
> </span></font></div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f=
> ont-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2=
> " face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> John=
>  E Drake [<a href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">mailto:[e-mail]</=
> a>]
> <br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, April 11, 2=
> 012 3:53 PM<br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> AshwoodsmithPeter; <a hr=
> ef=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">
> [e-mail]</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>=
> <br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: [nvo3] When is =
> an overlay not a VPN?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
> </div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Peter,<o=
> :p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">I don&#8=
> 217;t think that is correct.&nbsp; In existing L2/L3 VPN technologies, the =
> VPN awareness is restricted to the PEs.&nbsp; In NV03, the
>  VPN awareness is restricted to the NV03 edge nodes (aka PEs).<o:p></o:p></=
> span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<=
> o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">John &nb=
> sp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Sent fro=
> m my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nb=
> sp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
> 4.0pt">
> <div>
> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
> 0in 0in">
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f=
> ont-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2=
> " face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
> <a href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a> [<a href=
> =3D"mailto:[e-mail]">mailto:[e-mail]</a>]
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>AshwoodsmithPet=
> er<br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, April 11, 2=
> 012 12:41 PM<br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:adrian=
> @olddog.co.uk">
> [e-mail]</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>=
> <br>
> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [nvo3] When is =
> an overlay not a VPN?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> </div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><font s=
> ize=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
> &quot;Courier New&quot;">Adrian</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font s=
> ize=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
> &quot;Courier New&quot;">,</span></font><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"fon=
> t-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2"><=
> span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Ok, veeeeery broadly....</span></font>=
> <font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
> lt:auto;
> margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
> <![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Symbol"><span style=3D"font-s=
> ize:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<fon=
> t size=3D"1" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
>  New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
> sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
> </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Couri=
> er New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
> ">The term 'VPN', as used in the IETF requires 'some' involvement by the un=
> derlying IP network.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
> lt:auto;
> margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
> <![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Symbol"><span style=3D"font-s=
> ize:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&middot;<fon=
> t size=3D"1" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times=
>  New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
> sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
> </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Couri=
> er New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
> ">The term 'Overlay', as used in this context requires 'no' involvement by =
> the underlying IP network.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Of course the degree of 'some' v.s. 'n=
> o' is open for debate but that&#8217;s probably the simplest high level vie=
> w of the terminology difference &#43; baggage
>  I can think of.</span></font><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
> 0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Peter</span></font><font size=3D"2"><s=
> pan style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">-----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a> [<=
> a href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">mailto:[e-mail]</a>] O=
> n Behalf Of Adrian Farrel<br>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 11:44 AM<br>
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a><br>
> Subject: [nvo3] When is an overlay not a VPN?</span></font><font size=3D"2"=
> ><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Hi,</span></font><font size=3D"2"><spa=
> n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2"><=
> span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I am reviewing the nvo3 draft charter =
> for the IESG telechat this week and I</span></font><font size=3D"2"><span s=
> tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">stumbled on the distinction between &q=
> uot;overlay&quot; and &quot;VPN&quot;.</span></font><font size=3D"2"><span =
> style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2"><=
> span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Would someone like to risk two sentenc=
> es of definition that allows me to see the</span></font><font size=3D"2"><s=
> pan style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">difference?</span></font><font size=3D=
> "2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2"><=
> span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Thanks,</span></font><font size=3D"2">=
> <span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><font s=
> ize=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
> &quot;Courier New&quot;">Adrian</span></font></st1:place></st1:City><font s=
> ize=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span></font><font size=3D"2"><=
> span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">______________________________________=
> _________</span></font><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o=
> :p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">nvo3 mailing list</span></font><font s=
> ize=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">nvo3@=
> ietf.org</a></span></font><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"=
> ><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
> "font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailma=
> n/listinfo/nvo3">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3</a></span></fon=
> t><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></fon=
> t></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
> e=3D"font-size:
> 10.0pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> </div>
> </div>
> </div>
> </div>
> </body>
> </html>
> 
> --_000_7AE6A4247B044C4ABE0A5B6BF427F8E293916Edfweml503mbx_--
> 
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> _______________________________________________
> nvo3 mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3
> 
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