IETF Logo Mail Archive

[openpgp] Re: Algorithms vs packets in forwarding and PSK

Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> Wed, 03 September 2025 14:14 UTC

Return-Path: <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
X-Original-To: openpgp@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: openpgp@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384055CB1956 for <openpgp@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Sep 2025 07:14:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.051
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.051 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.049, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=fifthhorseman.net header.b="J9aXMAda"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fifthhorseman.net header.b="BCkEfdul"
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hJJmvCr1d71n for <openpgp@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Sep 2025 07:14:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [IPv6:2001:470:1:116::7]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16C2F5CB17FA for <openpgp@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Sep 2025 07:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=fifthhorseman.net; i=@fifthhorseman.net; q=dns/txt; s=2019; t=1756908874; h=from : to : subject : in-reply-to : references : date : message-id : mime-version : content-type : from; bh=wltz0VjorYFxCWh34gOl86W+pLhCUToopTci8w3KPe8=; b=J9aXMAdanXJvF2hrCtQanuD8J0bKkGXJg6ZQxXpKwGd4DX+le9a+MVjfzigq2i8dXTZqy 52/s9aueHDis0k9DA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=fifthhorseman.net; i=@fifthhorseman.net; q=dns/txt; s=2019rsa; t=1756908874; h=from : to : subject : in-reply-to : references : date : message-id : mime-version : content-type : from; bh=wltz0VjorYFxCWh34gOl86W+pLhCUToopTci8w3KPe8=; b=BCkEfdul6XDH9QzuKGxHhcPJrzj5fYEkqdV93ln72A0Ok3kyNICJwRtBujMnSCrezcEZL G81L0tcLGe+uBRTI5Fa5RBSYRWMyHzJBG1gM260OQhrx4/59XYgEZYPM/Pq5Qbrq4YhGLwM o8nqsR64i50L5YFhFkI6zoxKf77jHxxbq8ZhF61reEjzimnh55T1082X69OScJnHse0Bcf8 vsiLujGSe/DFpeo5M1dwiVWfmjMUpC6cEh2VbceuuMEAty1kyqYXtbZrWlUpsGJA8OCHGZR d4QOIA2/yzUxL8JkPeir1n40a9XzRrxABcEzJ+Q9xXaxhRQY/8JXjOT3SxZw==
Received: from fifthhorseman.net (AMERICAN-CI.ear2.NewYork6.Level3.net [4.59.214.2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519) (No client certificate requested) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CE6D3F94C; Wed, 03 Sep 2025 10:14:34 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7582C13F6BB; Tue, 02 Sep 2025 17:29:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Daniel Huigens <d.huigens=40protonmail.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF OpenPGP WG <openpgp@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <Hc3ISJioGLKTY8w-xL2U4-c2UDlDmBR6QZ2IJ_s_PzKT7kpnG9tc1yV0doyJZe9E-X8yvsiJDiyVyvmuQ-iDC03tpNtVnAl2YDHZ9-FJKys=@protonmail.com>
References: <Hc3ISJioGLKTY8w-xL2U4-c2UDlDmBR6QZ2IJ_s_PzKT7kpnG9tc1yV0doyJZe9E-X8yvsiJDiyVyvmuQ-iDC03tpNtVnAl2YDHZ9-FJKys=@protonmail.com>
Autocrypt: addr=dkg@fifthhorseman.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xjMEZXEJyxYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdA5BpbW0bpl5qCng/RiqwhQINrplDMSS5JsO/YO+5Zi7HNFzxk a2dAZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ+wsARBBMWCgB5AwsJB0cUAAAAAAAeACBzYWx0QG5vdGF0aW9u cy5zZXF1b2lhLXBncC5vcmcS78JIJ7JbALqPiKEmva7/Pp16WwXWm9hbe5+B/UvnfwMVCggCmwEC HgEWIQTUdwQMcMIValwphUm7fpEBSV5r9wUCZadfkAUJBdnwRQAKCRC7fpEBSV5r9yNXAP442N0c zvisBroQSKKpo+OWm2JpnEJWoVheeJvoRtkBGQEA+edHylby8IGcNccq7rmM2rAXdofvrU1o6qow V+mmDwbOMwRnio4OFgkrBgEEAdpHDwEBB0Cw9HzJFl9lZn3UBaUqSMSgxjcdbd0MwNVcGZ8t8wdN EcLAvwQYFgoBMQWCZ4qODgkQu36RAUlea/dHFAAAAAAAHgAgc2FsdEBub3RhdGlvbnMuc2VxdW9p YS1wZ3Aub3JnhcN+tn41cAg01Kk56zcAfpdsh8j98PDe00mqKPfFvaYCmwK+oAQZFgoAbwWCZ4qO DgkQeAuFTtnCtJZHFAAAAAAAHgAgc2FsdEBub3RhdGlvbnMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3JnxsD8Sk5P Wgx8c/Zseo6OlCjyDC+Ogm17gTaUUIpxjWYWIQRjrBGOWy5dZsiKhad4C4VO2cK0lgAAdcQA/1RG dmrmvVxkBY2qNPjtERNwPga8Pf4IdlenrZ03NXM4AQC+TDHMpD7d5obEvUy8GYI3oThzYItPP8vv ChY+wbaIBRYhBNR3BAxwwhVqXCmFSbt+kQFJXmv3AAAKbgD+K1MZXnRKPdmA8DgNysyGRZY8cSVH HQcC7ZAAtV3i2+wA/0CyOYrbFYbyTRALgoERR07OHFoP+fJopQLMNQARVUELzjgEZ4qN+RIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQDTGlR+Qmn334e+bPqvojJVdFsiBf0leAAHP+ESqop8NAwEIB8LAAAQYFgoAcgWC Z4qN+QkQu36RAUlea/dHFAAAAAAAHgAgc2FsdEBub3RhdGlvbnMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3JnA5Lw b3wOOcoodImuVNw4PYq1U65FDC1Q2JMFIcJXqF0CmwwWIQTUdwQMcMIValwphUm7fpEBSV5r9wAA 6egA/j3QANSmogZ5VTF5KlI+BBye9ud/w9j7RLcCHU6u8AA1AQC3FGaNuv+uWOSa+eeEoI/aZrGd X5el8b/m6aXDDxDjDg==
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2025 17:29:02 -0400
Message-ID: <87wm6gczmp.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Message-ID-Hash: O5VO4NNVK4GXK6LHUEYQHPTY2SJRSX3S
X-Message-ID-Hash: O5VO4NNVK4GXK6LHUEYQHPTY2SJRSX3S
X-MailFrom: dkg@fifthhorseman.net
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-openpgp.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [openpgp] Re: Algorithms vs packets in forwarding and PSK
List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." <openpgp.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/openpgp/GBHOwsPXv9TH6fHwwPb6CiRSSPo>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/openpgp>
List-Help: <mailto:openpgp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:openpgp-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:openpgp@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:openpgp-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:openpgp-leave@ietf.org>

Hey OpenPGP folks--

I know late august tends to be vacation time, but it would be great to
see some discussion on-list about the choices raised by Daniel here:

On Tue 2025-08-19 14:27:02 +0000, Daniel Huigens wrote:
> Last month we had two parallel threads about whether to define new
> algorithms or new packet(s) in the forwarding and persistent symmetric
> keys drafts.
  […]
> For those that have followed or are interested in both discussions,
> please let us know what your preferred option is. If your preferred
> option differs between the two drafts, please also indicate which
> factor makes you prefer a different outcome :)

If you understand both of these drafts, it would be great to hear some
discussion about where you land for how their mechanisms should be laid
out.  Are they similar enough that they should be aligned and built the
same way?  Are there subtle differences that suggest one approach or the
other?

  --dkg

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status