Re: [P2PSIP] Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-concepts-04
"Charlie Eunsoo Shim" <eunsooshim@gmail.com> Thu, 08 March 2007 14:54 UTC
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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:54:52 -0500
From: Charlie Eunsoo Shim <eunsooshim@gmail.com>
To: "Willekens, Marc" <Marc.Willekens@siemens.com>
Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-concepts-04
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Cc: Philip Matthews <philip_matthews@magma.ca>, P2PSIP Mailing List <p2psip@ietf.org>
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The 'stabilization factor' is a nice idea. In a simple case, it would be a factor considered internally by each end device to decide whether it should become a Peer or a Client (==Passive Peer in your suggested term). Then it does not require any detailed specification. Thanks. Eunsoo On 3/7/07, Willekens, Marc <Marc.Willekens@siemens.com> wrote: > > Hi Philip, > About the additional questions, I think the most important is the > scalability. These days, the p2p paradigm is seen as "the solution" to solve > the scalability problem. It's true for the processing power and memory which > is spread out over the p2p network, but the cost is the additional traffic > in the network. The big question is the stability of the network, certainly > when its completely under control by the end-users. If they make use of > unstable end-devices, and when their p2p network connection is intermittent, > then there could be many required updates in the distributed hash tables. > Maybe we need a kind of "stabilization factor" for each end-device in order > to determine its activity role in the p2p network, i.e. how much it is > allowed to contribute its resources to the p2p network. Do we need a kind of > incentive system so that p2p networks always strives to a certain optimum? > Br, > Marc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Philip Matthews [mailto:philip_matthews@magma.ca] > Sent: woensdag 7 maart 2007 23:27 > To: Willekens, Marc > Cc: Dean Willis; P2PSIP Mailing List > Subject: Re: [P2PSIP] Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-concepts-04 > > Marc: > > Thanks very much for your comments. > Replies inline. > > - Philip > > On 7-Mar-07, at 10:30 , Willekens, Marc wrote: > > > Hi Dean and other draft authors; > > > > Some comments to your draft: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-willis-p2psip- > > concepts-04.txt > > > > 1. General remark > > Nice rework of this version! The high level description now > > indicates the scope of the P2PSIP which is not restricted to the > > typical SIP registrar functionality. Maybe, it's better to indicate > > this also in the abstract section which still indicates a more > > restrictive scope. > > Thanks. > > > > 2. Specific remarks > > [Page 4], 2 High Level Description, §5 > > "The distributed database may need to store information about > > services." > > Shouldn't this be extended with the resources provided for these > > services? I can assume not all nodes will have the same kind of > > processing power, memory and transport bandwidth. This information > > is required to allow an optimal spreading of the information in the > > p2p overlay network. The distribution algorithm has to take this > > information into account. > > The wording here was intended to be vague on the details > of what would be stored. There is a little bit more details later > about services in section 5.1. > > Section 6.1 explicitly raises the issue of how to select between > multiple peers offering the same service. However, we do not > specify a solution, since we don't think the WG has come to > any consensus on this. In fact, one of the proposals is that > the WG _not_ standardize how this is done. > > > > > > > [Page 4], 2 High Level Description, §6 > > Some discussion about the name for P2PSIP-peer and P2PSIP client: > > The client gives the impression of a client/server concept which is > > in contradiction with the distributed p2p model. Of course, a > > client/server access architecture can be used to access the p2p > > network, but then, it's maybe better to talk about a normal SIP > > client because the P2PSIP overlay network is in fact unknown and > > invisible to the user. > > Yup. Hence the document says (section 4) > > Note > that the term client does not imply that this node is a SIP UAC. > Some have suggested that the word 'client' be changed to > something > else to avoid both this confusion and the implication of a > client- > server relationship. > > > When the scope is p2p and having a client which is not providing > > the resources in an active way to the p2p network, but when it is > > however making use of p2p functionality to get and put information > > in the overlay network, then we can start thinking about > > differentiating between active P2PSIP peers and passive P2PSIP peers. > > Thanks for the terminology suggestion. > Let's see what happens with the client concept. If they are kept, > then this might be a good terminology change. > > > > > [Page 5], 2 High Level Description, §10 > > I agree to the extension to different address spaces. I think it's > > a mandatory requirement to allow the p2p overlay network on a world- > > wide scale basis over different domain spaces. If it's bound to a > > specific address space only, then it are the end-users contributing > > to network resources without having a real additional benefit out > > of it. It only solves the problem of the domain owner to reduce its > > own OPEX and CAPEX by moving this towards the end-user. > > However, when it works over different address spaces (domains), > > then a world-wide service provider can use the p2p concept in his > > own overlay network in a more optimal way and distribute the data > > in function of the location where it is needed the most. > > OK. > > > > > [Page 13], 5.2 Using the distributed database, §1 > > Why have you taken out the examples from the -03 version? In > > version 03, it was indicated who will setup the actual session > > after finding the location from the distributed database. For that > > version 03, I have the remark of one additional case which can also > > be considered, i.e. in §1.4.2, (P2PSIP client contacts P2PSIP > > Peer), the UA client C is setting up the session. The additional > > case could be the setup of the session by the Peer Q. In that way, > > the "passive" peer can take advantage of its "active" peer part in > > the network to execute the SIP invite protocol. > > The examples from the -03 version were removed because: > a) They ignored the presence of NATs (e.g., you usually cannot > just send an INVITE to a peer that is directly behind a NAT), AND > b) They all assumed the first option of section 5.2 and we wanted > to talk about the other options, AND > c) They all assumed the first alternative of section 5.5. > > The examples in the -04 version do not make these assumptions, > and (in my opinion) give much more detail. > > What we gave up was examples about clients. > As the person who wrote most of the text in this revision, I will say > that it is REALLY REALLY difficult to say > much about clients right now, since almost nothing is decided. > Trying to write text about clients that is true under all the > alternative > views of clients that have been proposed is very painful. > > I guess we could have added some examples in the section that > talks about clients. > > > > > [Page 21], 6 Additional questions > > The document indicates the use of a p2p network over different > > address spaces. However, there can still be many different separate > > p2p networks. Don't we have to think about inter-p2p domain > > communication? Can a user belong to different p2p overlay networks > > at the same time? What's the influence on very big p2p networks > > when end-users have a very dynamic behavior for enrolment and > > inserting their peer node in the network? What's the practical > > limit for the amount of peers? Does it really scale world-wide or > > do we have to think about smaller p2p networks interconnected with > > each other? > > > > Thanks for the questions. > We will think about including some of them in the next revision. > > If we assume that we want to keep this section fairly important, > then which questions do you think are the most important? > > > - Philip > > > > _______________________________________________ > P2PSIP mailing list > P2PSIP@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip >
_______________________________________________ P2PSIP mailing list P2PSIP@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/p2psip
- [P2PSIP] Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-concepts… Willekens, Marc
- RE: [P2PSIP] Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-conc… Willekens, Marc
- Re: [P2PSIP] Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-conc… Philip Matthews
- RE: [P2PSIP] Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-conc… Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [P2PSIP] Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-conc… Philip Matthews
- Re: [P2PSIP] Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-conc… Charlie Eunsoo Shim
- [P2PSIP] Re: Comments to draft-willis-p2psip-conc… Dean Willis