IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [payload] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-17: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Tue, 05 March 2019 14:11 UTC

Return-Path: <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C54AE131268 for <payload@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:11:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.3
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=U1ya/LBx; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=eL4dA85A
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9yAtLk_uRlFU for <payload@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:11:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A31CF131189 for <payload@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:11:27 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1551795085; x=1554387085; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=aU1lbL+5J+1bqA5B9G8/wjFlqG0umK/zZBVWu8WSe50=; b=U1ya/LBxkbyyFaAobzrpQrGWep7jFAWaereeheqJA4CunVbH3YIrw9qHDeQ42aV9 SCREGL/bMOAiV2h8448hksv8bFsu7b8hKzkqDPtyjo5in87kQRxldG9a9VriAPCW oCxsJUdWA0+2jBsmrY/0kqh+w9YAv6CYzN61bJ46xE8=;
X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-167ff7000000672c-a6-5c7e838dffce
Received: from ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.123]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 43.5C.26412.D838E7C5; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 15:11:25 +0100 (CET)
Received: from ESESSMR502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.110) by ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.123) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 15:11:25 +0100
Received: from ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) by ESESSMR502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.110) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 15:11:25 +0100
Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.157) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 15:11:24 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=aU1lbL+5J+1bqA5B9G8/wjFlqG0umK/zZBVWu8WSe50=; b=eL4dA85AmYj07UHD9eWI+kxMp/g0k+Rc23r5uXYYcy6/ND8l+RHepdTs32qJP8YLi6menpXIGVuBgikLc8t31kHObepn9nuI3Xep662nN2lvsly7cRJwqQ9eUNm+Xga5o3P7ur8C8mzOAI0TadjZVSkxzUuj7t48UTMBcNVTQpI=
Received: from HE1PR0701MB2522.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.168.128.149) by HE1PR0701MB2633.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.168.185.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1686.5; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 14:11:23 +0000
Received: from HE1PR0701MB2522.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4cb:751a:9e20:ca78]) by HE1PR0701MB2522.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4cb:751a:9e20:ca78%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1686.016; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 14:11:23 +0000
From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: Giridhar Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
CC: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "roni.even@mail01.huawei.com" <roni.even@mail01.huawei.com>, "payload-chairs@ietf.org" <payload-chairs@ietf.org>, "payload@ietf.org" <payload@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [payload] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-17: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHUx9RrE+qo8a/ki06DNNe3BRLJCQ==
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 14:11:23 +0000
Message-ID: <HE1PR0701MB25221DF39C52C8C66A01F66A95720@HE1PR0701MB2522.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <155052681367.25946.18116200153523550938.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <DB6PR0701MB2517037171DD3C796EC0655F957E0@DB6PR0701MB2517.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <0ef384ddaabd4883b77db08a477ab822@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com> <20190227002556.GE53396@kduck.mit.edu> <55e0b103a8824dd4a770678b974628ce@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com>
Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com;
x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.91]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 862d859a-0595-4589-f791-08d6a17472bd
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600127)(711020)(4605104)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:HE1PR0701MB2633;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR0701MB2633:
x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR0701MB2633; 23: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
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <HE1PR0701MB2633B3E9794210AC3D40977795720@HE1PR0701MB2633.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-forefront-prvs: 0967749BC1
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(136003)(396003)(366004)(346002)(39860400002)(376002)(199004)(189003)(6116002)(5660300002)(81156014)(486006)(110136005)(446003)(316002)(66066001)(52536013)(86362001)(186003)(606006)(14454004)(26005)(256004)(53546011)(478600001)(54906003)(93886005)(76176011)(6506007)(99286004)(71200400001)(71190400001)(53936002)(81166006)(74316002)(7696005)(8676002)(102836004)(14444005)(44832011)(8936002)(6306002)(68736007)(55016002)(105586002)(4326008)(25786009)(6436002)(106356001)(7736002)(476003)(966005)(3846002)(9686003)(229853002)(54896002)(2906002)(97736004)(6246003)(2171002)(33656002)(236005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR0701MB2633; H:HE1PR0701MB2522.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: ZxIWZCXwbBRXsqfWxw1J5X+Sjso0EPfRu2LBCRef7PTYqUWPLvyLKdXXOYpm/Do86r2BD40F+4QX3mUYa4TXNkLeT0aRqxMLWXh+ZnqEwkjjAb+R32UXGdjShzgMkNDSWMCImHlU4syEku6V848/+BQUTuWhGZChMAepSCwCRJYyYzJecCFcTwl+s0emGdVoEpMaGt/O8n+xFI5kxtkeM/T2W7Uqkn9R6NifEXFRK44KAkBIJHqFVqlzdLEvAbsC5xBBWIFpYDzXfio33HU+JjQkbRMYafg8Y96dKlHc1c1aV4KrJCbB1rjS//0RYVAA33/gv8qnDCBEAfU85OtOvAWHneSE1taSGD/S2ryDdx/EOqzQNI1LL/1sXdzJTl6dOwH2YOt0F7LG3qNqDpJbvqgUs2fAi9P4jRYb/v9XPLM=
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HE1PR0701MB25221DF39C52C8C66A01F66A95720HE1PR0701MB2522_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 862d859a-0595-4589-f791-08d6a17472bd
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Mar 2019 14:11:23.1243 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0701MB2633
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Se0hTURzHOffebVdxdp2KvzTJVhGajzSjW4RkEQ0i0CAzEXLm9ZE6bdfE B5mmmA+CWVQ6CqctRaUyMxUT8jGx1OGrQBN8TdMQNcvSSqNtR8H/Pr/f93PO7/zg0KREL3Ck YxRJnFIhj5MKLamS4MZ0j7vZGaGH8jtc2I1RJVu8XkSyla9KCHZpbQSxTRNrInZwQE+w0zlr 5EmRTKv9TciaXk8IZLd7O0lZ+YMvKIAKsTwRwcXFJHNKL78wy+iyxfTEce+UmkatKBOVuhYg CxoYXxh6skwWIEtawugQTI71i0yBhPmJYFpH48DI6/PFBC6eEjA+NE6ZCopRkaDJ1opw8oiA H92rFC4MCLQTpULTZUKGhZG1LDPbMYHwceO5wMQkU07ASN9pE9syaaDONZDYSYeOvE8CzJ7w rOehmSlmH9S/mzc7YiYMavMnNof1E1C1kGsegBhnGF8do/AAB/g8XUrgVRnQtvSRmO3hq+Gf APtyGM6a2XRcYLSyi8LsDIOlhQjzeVioqUOmYcCMImjontuU3GH55a9NyRHeD3QKsNRqDf33 ZkU4SICWN3nGA7SRd8HSigg7BULo0nwjVchDve2xmBOguvCPQG3e1AY+lExTuO8OmrffhZgP QkXZPLnFva0GYntfg0TVyJ7neD4+ysfHk1PGXOX5BIWngkuqQ8ZP1lb/93gTapv1b0cMjaRW 4v64jFCJQJ7Mp8a3I6BJqZ04/bqxJY6Qp6ZxyoQryhtxHN+OnGhK6iBel9iESpgoeRIXy3GJ nHIrJWgLx0zEX548JQnKHj5W1RUYFqVnL8Xut5+ivdoO7/a6MNUny66zswqq4nrSwm7OXpzx CdixmHhLFxi8cmBKoU6x8FZl7Hkc0tzpe+5F8/3BZH9V4diqW7STPrxSzu6Mqoi2XY88o7lD 6uqv+bUVHVmJDFC7DleenTPkpJQ1hGv3qo5a10opPlru7UYqefl/AWksjGADAAA=
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/payload/uLYbZhTGipshS2fSrlZZ6Jkyuq0>
Subject: Re: [payload] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-17: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list <payload.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/payload>, <mailto:payload-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/payload/>
List-Post: <mailto:payload@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:payload-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload>, <mailto:payload-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 14:11:31 -0000

Hi,

I like to add a bit of clarification to this first part that was unclear in my opinion.

On 2019-03-04 20:08, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:

Thanks Benjamin.  Apologies for the late reply, but we (the editors) were confirming the best response to your follow-up questions.



Maybe my question was not phrased well.  IIUC, the repair packets can only cover real media source streams that are part of the same RTP session.


So in order for both audio and video to be available in the same RTP session as potential input to asingle repair packet stream, the audio and video would need to be together in the same RTP session; presumably that would involve getting demux'd based on payload type or SSRC, which is what I'm reading 3550 as saying to not do.  Am I just misunderstanding that the repair inputs must be part of the same RTP session?

They are demultiplexed on SSRC. And although RFC 3550 says not to mix media types, that has actually been revised. There is an approved for publication I-D that changes this. This was a huge discussion a bit over 5-years in the context of WebRTC. This FEC mechanism is a result of the needs for WebRTC and its environment. So they all fit together. The I-D is this one:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-avtcore-multi-media-rtp-session/

The repair packets may be sent in the same RTP Session as the source RTP streams, the most likely configuration for WebRTC. But the repair RTP streams may also be sent in a separate RTP session from the source RTP streams.

Section 4.2.1 says:

      Synchronization Source (SSRC): The SSRC value for each repair
      stream SHALL be randomly assigned as per the guidelines provided
      in Section 8 of [RFC3550].  This allows the sender to multiplex
      the source and repair RTP streams in the same RTP session, or
      multiplex multiple repair streams in an RTP session.



Cheers


Magnus Westerlund

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com<mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email