Re: [pim] Zero-Configuration Assignment of IPv6 Multicast Addresses

Hi Nate and Mike

We had some discussions about a fairly similar problem for IPv4 10-15
years ago, but it didn't go anywhere. But this is an interesting
problem and I think we should look into it. At least I am interested.

Regarding multiple applications on the same host. I wonder if
interface-local, scope 1, could be used for that. If the application
doesn't need to use the same group on multiple interfaces, that should
work. Of course if the protocol uses link-local, then that could also
work for multiple applications in the same host.

Regards,
Stig

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 1:53 PM Michael McBride
<michael.mcbride@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Nate,
>
>
>
> Thank you for bringing this up on the list. Very interesting application of multicast. It appears we would need to purchase the OneNet standard to review it. Is there anything available we can read to delve further into the multicast aspects of the OneNet architecture? It would also be great if you could present an overview at our upcoming meeting in Philadelphia (in person or remote) the week of July 24th.
>
>
>
> This pim group is the correct group to help determine if modifying existing protocols will work or if a new one should be developed. We will likely need to also reach out to some of the individuals who worked on zeroconf (including ZMAAP). Perhaps we can revive that work in pim.
>
>
>
> mike
>
>
>
> From: pim <pim-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Karstens, Nate
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 10:17 AM
> To: pim@ietf.org
> Subject: [pim] Zero-Configuration Assignment of IPv6 Multicast Addresses
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> I am the chair of a standards committee at the National Marine Electronics Association (NMEA). We are in the final stages of developing NMEA OneNet, a standard for Ethernet/IPv6-based communication and control of marine systems (a little background: NMEA has existing standards, NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000, that provide similar functionality over serial and CAN).
>
>
>
> Marine networks can be a mix of low-bandwidth embedded sensors and high-bandwidth streams for radar and video data, and most of this data is sent multicast on the local network. In order to prevent high-bandwidth streams from overwhelming low-bandwidth links, we assign traffic to different multicast addresses and then use multicast snooping to direct those streams only to hosts that request them.
>
>
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> Source-specific multicast is not feasible due to the available switch hardware. As such, we believe we have identified a need for zero-configuration assignment of IPv6 multicast addresses on the local network.
>
>
>
> We investigated MADCAP, but this is not ideal because maritime systems try to avoid single points of failure. We also found ZMAAP, which seemed promising, but it was only a draft standard that expired in 2003. Link-scoped multicast addresses also seemed promising, but when you transmit these addresses on Ethernet you get 33:33 followed by 32 bits of the group ID, so even devices that assign their own IPv6 multicast addresses using a unique IID can still collide at the Ethernet layer due to the colliding group IDs.
>
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> Another related complication is that multicast streams can originate from different applications on the same host, and there is no mechanism for those applications collaborating to avoid collisions at the IPv6 layer.
>
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> Instead of developing our own method, we decided it may be preferable to work with IETF to develop an Internet standard that we could then use in our work. (Or, if there is something that will work for us but we’re not aware of, to learn about that). Alvaro recommended that we email this group to start the conversation and see where that leads us.
>
>
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> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Nate Karstens
>
> Garmin International, Inc.
>
> Chair, NMEA OneNet TSC
>
>
>
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