Re: [pkix] Signature Verification and DER requirements

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Fri, 15 May 2015 14:28 UTC

Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: pkix@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pkix@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23931A92F8 for <pkix@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:28:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.81
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.81 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mz7SsM0dg2d1 for <pkix@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:28:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6ECD1ABB1A for <pkix@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 May 2015 07:28:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF158BED7; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:28:53 +0100 (IST)
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g8hA1QNgh70a; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:28:53 +0100 (IST)
Received: from [134.226.36.180] (stephen-think.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.180]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 84174BED6; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:28:53 +0100 (IST)
Message-ID: <555602A4.50109@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 15:28:52 +0100
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Erik Andersen <era@x500.eu>, 'IETF PKIX' <pkix@ietf.org>
References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73AB020EBB@uxcn10-tdc05.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> <000001d08f19$3210caa0$96325fe0$@x500.eu>
In-Reply-To: <000001d08f19$3210caa0$96325fe0$@x500.eu>
OpenPGP: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pkix/pD1jzTmQlZoI4gjPTz-uAlqEP8c>
Subject: Re: [pkix] Signature Verification and DER requirements
X-BeenThere: pkix@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: PKIX Working Group <pkix.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/pkix>, <mailto:pkix-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pkix/>
List-Post: <mailto:pkix@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pkix-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pkix>, <mailto:pkix-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 14:29:00 -0000


On 15/05/15 15:12, Erik Andersen wrote:
> I am interested in comments.

Loooong ago there used be a few circumstances in which people
unwisely BER encoded certificates. The only one I can recall
that approached not being plain silly was X.400 security where
there might be giant ASN.1 things to send around that required
indefinite length encoding. Streaming video was I think the
example people used to justify that, not that I recall anyone
actually sending secure X.400 mails like that.

In such a case your code might be presented with a BER encoding
of a certificate (in the envelope) and have to reconstruct the
DER encoding. I'd say it was a dumb idea even then but I think
we ran into it. IIRC most other cases were really bugs, where
people used the wrong inputs to ASN.1 encoders because they
didn't know better or were lazy.

I would guess/hope all such code is long gone now though.

S.