Re: [ppsp] WGLC comments draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-03

["zhangyunfei" <[e-mail]>]

Thanks Johan for the review. As a practical developer of p2p streaming system, your comments make us more confident:)

Yunfei




zhangyunfei
2011-08-23



发件人： Johan Pouwelse
发送时间： 2011-08-23 03:07:08
收件人： [e-mail]
抄送： 
主题： Re: [ppsp] WGLC comments draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-03

The  "draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-03"  looks  very  polished.
After  a  careful  review  I  think  this  is  all  fine  and  ready  for  the  next  level.

Greetings,  Johan  Pouwelse.

2011/8/22  Martin  Stiemerling   <[e-mail] >:
>  Hi  Yunfei,
>
>
>
>  Here  is  the  text  proposal  for  the  security  section.  It  is  fairly  short  but
>  should  suffice  the  considerations  for  the  problem  statement.  I  have  included
>  the  "protection  of  the  content  distribution"  to  the  scope;  this  is  included
>  in  the  current  text.  However,  it  will  be  necessary  to  document  what  the
>  threat  to  the  content  distribution  is,  e.g.,  to  not  forward  chunks  or
>  exchange  chunks  with  bogus  data;  and  also  to  document  mitigations  to  this
>  (hashes,  hash  tress,  etc).
>
>
>
>  Here  you  go:
>
>
>
>  6.  Security  Considerations
>
>
>
>  This  memo  discusses  the  problem  statement  around  a  peer-to-peer  streaming
>  protocols  without  specifying  the  protocols.  The  protocol  specification  is
>  deferred  to  other  memos  under  development  in  the  PPSP  working  group.
>
>
>
>  The  PPSP  protocol  specifications,  e.g.,  the  peer  protocol  and  the  tracker
>  protocol,  will  document  the  expected  threats  and  how  they  will  be  mitigated
>  for  each  protocol,  but  also  considerations  on  threats  and  mitigations  when
>  combining  both  protocols  in  an  application.  This  will  include  privacy  of  the
>  users,  protection  of  the  content  distribution,  but  not  protection  of  the
>  content  by  Digital  Rights  Management  (DRM).
>
>
>
>      Martin
>
>
>
>  From:  zhangyunfei  [mailto:[e-mail]]
>  Sent:  Tuesday,  August  16,  2011  9:56  AM
>  To:  Martin  Stiemerling;  [e-mail]
>  Subject:  Re:  [ppsp]  WGLC  comments  draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-03
>
>
>
>  Hi  Martin,
>
>  Thanks  for  the  careful  review.  Please  see  inline  for  the  reply.
>
>  BR
>
>  Yunfei
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>
>  zhangyunfei
>
>  2011-08-16
>
>  ________________________________
>
>  发件人：  Martin  Stiemerling
>
>  发送时间：  2011-08-15  21:06:14
>
>  收件人：  [e-mail]
>
>  抄送：
>
>  主题：  [ppsp]  WGLC  comments  draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-03
>
>
>
>  [Writing    not    as    WG    chair,    but    as    individual    contributor]
>
>
>
>  Dear    all,
>
>
>
>  I    have    reviewed    the    draft    draft-ietf-ppsp-problem-statement-03    and
>    did    mainly    find    editorial    issues.
>
>
>
>  Non-Editorials:
>
>  -    Section    3.1,    2nd    paragraph,    "        With    PPSP,    P2P    cache    can    detect
>    P2P    streaming    applications    much        easier    without    needing    to    update
>    its    library.";    It    might    not    be    completely        obvious    to    an    average
>    reader    why    a    standarizded    P2P    protocol    would    make    things    easier
>    here.    How    about    adding    at    the    end    of    this    sentence:    ",    as    there
>    is    only    a    single    protocol    to    be    detected    and    not    a    potentially
>    unknown    set    of    proprietary    P2P    protocols".
>
>
>
>  [Yunfei]Good  proposal!
>
>  -    Section    3.2,    1st    paragraph,    1st    sentence.    I    cannot    see    the
>    relationship    between    the    section's    intended    scope    and    DONA    or    any
>    other    content    centric    networking.
>
>  [Yunfei]  Acutally  it  wants  to  explain  the  phenomenon  that  stream
>  content(including  using  P2P)will  account  a  lot  in  future  network  is  a  trend.
>  But  maybe  we  can  replace  the  trend  by  actual  figures(e.g,  in  section1,  cisco
>  figures)to  avoid  the  misleading  sentence.
>
>  -    Section    3.2,    3rd    paragraph,    You    lost    me    with    the    everything
>    after    the    first    sentence    of    this    paragraph.    I    don't    understand
>    what    it    is    saying    or    what    it    should    be    saying.
>
>  [Yunfei]  The  sentence  is  saying  that  PPSP  reduces  the  complexity  of  the  case
>  by  case  adaptation  between  CDN  and  the  CP.Maybe  I  can  rewrite  this  part.
>
>  -    Section    3.3,    1st    paragraph,    The    first    sentence    about    "mobility
>    and    wireless    are    becoming    increasingly    dominate    "    is    basically
>    reflecting    the    current    situation,    but    what    is    the    relationship    to
>    the    future    Internet    activities    mentioned    there?    The    mobile    and
>    wireless    part    is    already    sort    of    dominant    by    today.
>
>  [Yunfei]  Good  question.  Similar  to    section  3.1,  replace  "trend"  by  "fact".
>
>  -    Section    3.4,    2nd    paragraph:    I    know    what    this    paragraph    is
>    aiming    at,    i.e.,    reusing    the    same    library    and    potentially    other
>    optimizations.    But    it    would    be    better    to    rephrase    the    paragraph.
>    E.g.,    "PPSP    can    help    to    reduce    the    resource    consumption    on
>    resource    constraint    devices,    such    as    STBs    or    mobile    phones,    by
>    reusing    a    PPSP    base    library    and    ..."
>
>  [Yunfei]  Fine  for  the  change.
>
>
>
>  -    Security    section:
>
>  I'm    not    sure    that    the    current    security    section    is    exactly    what    we
>    need    for    the    problem    statement.    It    is    on    one    hand    detailed    on
>    the    threat    description    (e.g.,    "peers    may    report    fake    information
>    about    available    content"),    but    on    the    other    side    lacks    the
>    description    of    countermeasures    to    those    threats.
>
>  I    would    propose    to    rewrite    the    security    section    to    cover    a
>    broader    focus    on    highlighting    certain    threats,    but    letting    the    fix
>    to    those    to    the    particular    protocol    specifications,    i.e.,    the    peer
>    protocol    and    the    tracker    protocol.
>
>
>
>  I    can    provide    some    initial    text,    if    there    is    an    agreement    to
>    replace    the    security    section.
>
>  [Yunfei]  Thanks  and  would  be  glad  to  see  your  detailed  text  on  broadening
>  the  section.  And  would  ask  Christian  for  more  comments.
>
>
>
>  Editorials    (mainly    suggestions    to    improve    readability):
>
>  -    General:    There    are    many    places    where    the    dots    are    misplaced,
>    e.g.,    in
>
>    -    Section    1,    2nd    paragraph,    "    paradigm    [Survey].The".    This    should
>    read    "paradigm    [Survey].    The"    (space    between    dot    and    The)
>
>  -    Which    Internet    draft    template    is    being    used    for    this    draft?    The
>    new    templates    have    the    "Abstract"        before    the    part    on    "    Status
>    of    this    Memo"    and    "    Copyright    Notice".
>
>  -    Section    1,    2nd    paragraph,    comma    missing,    replace    "like    CNN    [CNN]
>    PPstream"    with    "like    CNN    [CNN],    PPstream"
>
>  -    Section    1,    2nd    paragraph,    replace    "Client-Server"    with
>    "client-server".    The    spelling    of    this    is    not    consistent    in    the
>    draft.
>
>  -    Section    1,    4th    paragraph,    replace    "Almost    all    these    systems"
>    with    "    Almost    all    of    these    systems".
>
>  -    Section    1,    4th    paragraph,    replace    "P2P    streaming,    the    open
>    protocols    will    dynamically    reduce        "    with    "P2P    streaming,    open
>    protocols    may    reduce    "
>
>  -    Section    2,    paragraph    starting    with    "PPSP",    replace    "The
>    abbreviation    of    P2P    streaming    protocols"    with    "The    abbreviation    of
>    Peer-to-Peer    Streaming    Protocols"
>
>  -    Section    2,    paragraph    starting    with    "Tracker",    replace    "list    of
>    peers    storing    chunks    for    a    specific    channel    or    streaming    file"
>    with    "list    of    peers    which    participate    in    a    specific    video    channel
>    or    in    the    distribution    of    a    streaming    file".
>
>  -    Section    2,    paragraph    starting    with    "Tracker",    replace    "from    peers
>    for    peer    lists"    with    "from    peers    with    a    list    of    candidate
>    peers".
>
>  -    Section    3,    1st    paragraph,    replace    "The    problems    brought    by
>    proprietary"    with    "The    problems    imposed    by    proprietary"
>
>  -    Section    3.1,    title    of    this    section,    replace    "Difficulties    for
>    ISP    in    deploying    P2P    caches"    with    "Difficulties    for    ISPs    in
>    deploying    P2P    caches"
>
>  -    Section    3.1,    1st    paragraph,    replace    "P2P        cache    is    used    to
>    reduce    the"    with    "P2P    caches    are    used    to    reduce    the"    or    "P2P
>    caching    is    used    to    reduce    the"
>
>  -    Section    3.1,    2nd    paragraph,    replace    "With    PPSP,    P2P    cache    can
>    detect"    with    "With    PPSP,    a    P2P    cache    can    detect"
>
>  -    Section    3.1,    2nd    paragraph,    the    last    sentence,    there    are    two
>    commas    between    "tracker/peer    protocol"    and    "which    is    easier..."
>
>  -    Section    3.2,    2nd    paragraph,    replace    "Similar    to    the    cache    case,
>    this"    with    "Similar    to    the    caching    case    in    Section    3.1,    this"
>
>  -    Section    3.3,    1st    paragraph,    last    sentence,    the    dot    at    the    end
>    is    missing.
>
>  -    Section    3.3,    2nd    paragraph,    page    10,    replace    "trackers    and    peers
>    need    more    information"    with    "trackers    and    peers    may    need    more
>    information"
>
>  -    Section    3.3,    2nd    paragraph,    page    10,    there    is    terminology
>    collision,    as    serving    gateway    is    translated    to    GGSN.    A    change    of
>    a    SGSN    will    not    be    noticed    by    the    terminal.    Moving    to    a    new
>    GGSN    might    be.    However,    moving    to    a    new    GGSN    might    be    experience
>    like    any    other    event    where    the    IP    address    changes.
>
>  -    Section    3.4,    1st    paragraph,    replace    "In    other    word"    with    "In
>    other    words"
>
>  -    Section    3.4,    1st    paragraph,    replace    "multiple    programs    in    one
>    resource    constraint"    with    "multiple    programs    in    a    resource
>    constraint"
>
>  -    Section    4,    1st    paragraph:    replace    full    1st    paragraph    with
>
>  "The    objective    of    the    PPSP    working    group    is    to    design    a    unified
>    peer-    to-peer    streaming    protocol    (PPSP)    to    address    the    problems
>    discussed    in    the    preceding    sections."
>
>  -    Section    4,    3rd    paragraph:    replace    "and    then    retrieve    for    wanted
>    streaming"    with    "and    then    retrieve    the    wanted    streaming"
>
>  -    Section    4,    4th    paragraph:    replace    "    topology    e.g.,    a    tree."
>    With    "    topology,    e.g.,    a    tree."
>
>  -    Section    4,    4th    paragraph:    replace    "(maybe    with    recommended
>    order)"    with    "(potentially    in    a    recommended    order)"
>
>  -    Section    4,    4th    paragraph:    replace    "Few    practical    systems"    with
>    "Few    commercially    deployed"
>
>  -    Section    4,    5th    paragraph:    what    is    "unfounded    data"?
>
>  -    Section    4,    6th    paragraph:    move    this    paragraph    to    page    12    before
>    paragraph    starting    with    "In    detail,"
>
>  -    Section    4,    last    paragraph,    page    12:    I'm    not    sure    that    we    still
>    need    this    paragraph.    Can    we    remove    it?
>
>  -    Section    5,    1st    paragraph,    there    is    a    leftover:    "       <Text    for
>    this    section   >".
>
>  -    Section    5.2,    1st    paragraph,    replace    "Also    it    can    also    talk"
>    with    "It    can    also    communicate"
>
>  -    Section    5.3,    2nd    paragraph,    replace    "    With    PPSP    Peers    can
>    identify    the    types    of    access    networks,    their    load/congestion
>    information"    with    "    With    PPSP,    peers    may    be    able    to    identify    the
>    type    of    access    networks,    average    load".    Do    not    include    congestion
>    information,    as    this    information    is    anyhow    too    volatile    to    be
>    tracked    by    some    entity    of    the    peer    network,    other    than    the    peers
>    which    are    anyhow    directly    communicating    with    each    other.
>
>  -    Section    5.3,    2nd    paragraph,    replace    "be    selected,    which    will
>    lead    to"    with    "be    selected,    which    may    lead    to"
>
>  -    Section    5.5,    1st    paragraph,    replace    "section3"    with    "Section    3"
>
>  -    Section    5.5,    1st    paragraph,    replace    "nodes    in    the    network"    with
>    "nodes    at    the    network"
>
>  -    Reference    section:    This    section    does    not    follow    the    style    of
>    references    as    used    in    the    RFC    series    and    needs    to    be    updated.
>
>
>
>  [Yunfei]I'll  update  these  editorial  issues  in  new  version  draft.
>
>
>
>  Kind    regards
>
>
>
>        Martin
>
>
>
>  [e-mail]
>
>
>
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