[Pqc] comments on hybrid teminology document

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sat, 18 March 2023 09:40 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: pqc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: pqc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C72C14CE46 for <pqc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 18 Mar 2023 02:40:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dbYs05Vc0fu4 for <pqc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 18 Mar 2023 02:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64A35C14CE38 for <pqc@ietf.org>; Sat, 18 Mar 2023 02:40:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dyas.sandelman.ca (unknown [31.31.156.10]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2980C1F4CF for <pqc@ietf.org>; Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:40:40 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by dyas.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7A8CBA1A65; Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:32:29 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from dyas (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dyas.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 787F9A1A63 for <pqc@ietf.org>; Sat, 18 Mar 2023 07:32:29 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: "pqc@ietf.org" <pqc@ietf.org>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 07:32:29 +0000
Message-ID: <2795327.1679124749@dyas>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pqc/3hKDhB8r8wnbG5M_iTb8JIrIaGc>
Subject: [Pqc] comments on hybrid teminology document
X-BeenThere: pqc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Post Quantum Cryptography discussion list <pqc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/pqc>, <mailto:pqc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/pqc/>
List-Post: <mailto:pqc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pqc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pqc>, <mailto:pqc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:40:51 -0000

I read:
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-driscoll-pqt-hybrid-terminology

over my coffee.  (I want you to imagine it printed on fanfold paper, with
coffee cup stains on it)

It took me a few takes to understand PQ/T => Post-Quantum/Traditional.
Probably because:
         *Post-Quantum Traditional (PQ/T) Hybrid Scheme*:
is split across a page-break.... switching to HTML version.

I didn't know the term CRQC, which makes me think of a galactic sized
crocodile eating the Internet.

section 3 defines things like: *Component Cryptographic Element*
but I guess what I don't know is if I'll see "CCE" as the TLA later on.

section 4:
         *Composite PQ/T Hybrid Protocol*:
vs:       Non-Composite

The other way to describe things is that the protocol does a single (hybrid)
exchange, or it does multiple non-hybrid exchanges.   The success/failure of
each exchange in the second case is visible at the protocol level, rather
than in the cryptographic "black box" part.
I can live with Composite, but I would prefer a different term than
non-composite.   I think that something that included "Multiple" in the term
would make sense.  I think that the IKEv2
draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-multiple-ke-12 is an example of the "Non-composite"

Maybe this document should update RFC4949 so that we get a forward pointer on
it.

In general, I think that this document too often has just prepended PQ/T to a
"traditional" term.

Also, I'd really rather a different term than "traditional".

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network architect  [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [



--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-                      *I*LIKE*TRAINS*