Re: [precis] Category changes with Unicode 6.3

"Martin J. Dürst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Wed, 16 October 2013 22:04 UTC

Return-Path: <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
X-Original-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: precis@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18DC611E82E9 for <precis@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:04:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -103.696
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.696 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.094, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gPoXC1BWH9Kn for <precis@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:04:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFA611E82BE for <precis@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Oct 2013 15:04:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.253.231]) by scintmta02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id r9GM4QJP013202; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 07:04:27 +0900
Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.134]) by scmse02.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 6284_2d01_ec4bf378_36ae_11e3_b7f7_001e6722eec2; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 07:04:26 +0900
Received: from [IPv6:::1] (unknown [133.2.210.1]) by itmail2.it.aoyama.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73211BF54C; Thu, 17 Oct 2013 07:04:26 +0900 (JST)
Message-ID: <525F0D53.5080308@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 07:04:03 +0900
From: "\"Martin J. Dürst\"" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Patrik Fältström <paf@frobbit.se>
References: <525DFB1F.8040401@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <7693B3B4-7204-48F0-8C42-EBF5D701BAF4@frobbit.se> <525E3A7F.9040204@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <DA8691AD-408B-409B-B6B6-3ECC048AB09A@frobbit.se> <11194FD50DDFBDB190254386@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <DD0B9E8D-F2D7-47E0-A33E-022454A679F6@frobbit.se>
In-Reply-To: <DD0B9E8D-F2D7-47E0-A33E-022454A679F6@frobbit.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc: idna-update@alvestrand.no, John C Klensin <klensin@jck.com>, precis@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [precis] Category changes with Unicode 6.3
X-BeenThere: precis@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Preparation and Comparison of Internationalized Strings <precis.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/precis>, <mailto:precis-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/precis>
List-Post: <mailto:precis@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:precis-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/precis>, <mailto:precis-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 22:04:52 -0000

On 2013/10/16 22:49, Patrik Fältström wrote:
> On 16 okt 2013, at 16:46, John C Klensin<klensin@jck.com>  wrote:
>
>> This is great.   To a considerable extent, it reinforces the
>> utility and importance of the IDNA2008 approach.
>
> Absolutely!
>
> Having the original IDNA locked with one version of Unicode is so weird I ask myself quite often how I could come up with that idea :-P

I think there are simple explanations, but they are non-technical.

When we worked on IDNA2003, there were so many people asking for so many 
things (many of them rather impossible, dangerous, or otherwise of 
doubtful value, but never mind), that any idea that was able to restrict 
the solution space looked like a good idea.

Also, there seems to be a psychological value in the newest version. In 
economic terms, no difference between 10 cents and 5 cents, and 5 cents 
and free, but because of psychological reasons, people behave quite 
differently once something is free. Likewise, with versions, even though 
the differences from version 3.1 to version 3.2 and from version 3.2 to 
3.3 or 4.0 may be of the same nature or magnitude, if version 3.2 is the 
newest, that's seen as more stable and permanent that the others.

Thinking about many standardization efforts I have seen over time, there 
also seems to be a tendency to ignore versioning in the first version, 
because it's seen as the only one, and people are really concerned with 
getting the basics right. Occasionally, one sees a lot of effort being 
put into versioning and extensibility, but it usually doesn't work out 
exactly as intended.

So in summary, versioning is hard, and maybe it's easier to get right in 
the second version than in the first.

Regards,   Martin.