Re: [quicwg/base-drafts] Make TLS Optional (#4260)

[hardie <[e-mail]>]

Hi Karthik,

The history is somewhat different, and you may find it useful to refer to
some of the original design rational:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RNHkx_VvKWyWg6Lr8SZ-saqsQx7rFV-ev2jRFUoVD34/edit
.  As it notes, one of the key desires was to encrypt as much as possible:

Experience with SPDY development has taught us that the only way to prevent
> middleboxes from maligning a new protocol built atop UDP or TCP (e.g.,
> misconstruing it for a “known” protocol, and making “less than helpful”
> changes), is to encrypt as much of the payload and control structure as
> feasible.
>

So the choice not to provide an unencrypted variant goes back quite a long
way and was justified by arguments for privacy, data integrity, *and a
desire to avoid network-hosted middleboxes attempting to adjust the
protocol state machine*.

regards,

Ted Hardie

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 1:58 PM Karthik Kumar Viswanathan <
[e-mail]> wrote:

> @gloinul <https://github.com/gloinul> @larseggert
> <https://github.com/larseggert> Thank you for that explanation, I didn't
> realize that this was off the charter. However, I found that this was the
> only thing that could require worthwhile investigation.
>
> I always thought TLS was backported IMO based on its mandation in HTTP/2,
> and before the finalization, felt Quic could fix that problem by making
> sure the transport isn't enforced. I knew some people who had configured
> TLS_NULL_WITH_NULL_NULL to get around some of these issues and I didn't
> want things like that to get repeated, hence wanted a clear inversion of
> control: either always encrypted (privacy) or free (replay and stream
> broadcast)
>
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