Re: Exercising Version Negotiation
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Thu, 22 March 2018 16:45 UTC
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:45:14 +0000
Message-ID: <CABcZeBN8hN7w0NsRBshkhu9vEwiq5_AbaTBBv7arKY5C=yv0oA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Exercising Version Negotiation
To: Subodh Iyengar <subodh@fb.com>
Cc: Roberto Peon <fenix@fb.com>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
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Hi Subodh, I'm sorry, I'm not following you. I'm not talking about the spin bit here, just about exercising the regular negotiation function. -Ekr On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Subodh Iyengar <subodh@fb.com> wrote: > I don't think using version negotiation is as simple as it seems: > > > 1. My understanding is that the current draft and the data that was > shown doesn't even look at the handshake negotiation and only looks at > short headers. > 2. Short headers have no version. So to use version negotiation > correctly as a signal of the spin bit, the middlebox MUST intercept the > handshake negotiation. > 3. Each 5 tuple could potentially have multiple connections and we are > apparently designing for that use case, so the middlebox needs to use > connection id > 4. Some implementations are thinking of changing connection ids very > frequently, maybe in each RTT. > > > Given these are we saying that when using the spin version you must not > change the conn id per RTT so that the middlebox can observe the spin? > > > Subodh > > ------------------------------ > *From:* QUIC <quic-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Roberto Peon < > fenix@fb.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:19:57 AM > *To:* Eric Rescorla; IETF QUIC WG > *Subject:* [Potential Spoof] Re: Exercising Version Negotiation > > Love it. This is a great idea! > > I'd suggest being more agressive with deployment, e.g. recommend that > servers negotiate speaking version +1 to more like 50% of the clients, and > swap guid/ip mappings to have clients formerly using +1 switch to -1 and > vice versa weekly or so. > > -=R > > > > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> > Date: 3/22/18 5:05 AM (GMT-08:00) > To: IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org> > Subject: Exercising Version Negotiation > > Following up on the discussion at the mic, I do think it is useful to > exercise the VN function, but I don't think it's useful to have those > versions be different, because that creates perverse incentives. > > Here's what I suggest instead: create two versions (we can call them QUIC > v1+i and QUIC v1-i), each with its own code point [0]. They should be > essentially identical except for two trivial differences, intended to > ensure that if you screw up version negotiation, you get failed interop. > > - The constant in the handshake salt (5.2.2) > - The HKDF expansion constants > > I suggest we handle each of these by just inverting the bits. > > We would then suggest to people that they somewhat randomize their > preferences (e.g., 99% of the time prefer v1+i, 1% of the time prefer > v1-i). This will almost always result in matching versions, but will > occasionally result in a mismatch, thus forcing us to test VN. > > -Ekr > > [0] Obviously we can do this for draft versions. We just say that the two > versions are > ff0000XX and ffffffXX. > > > > > > >
- Exercising Version Negotiation Eric Rescorla
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ryan Hamilton
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Eric Rescorla
- RE: Exercising Version Negotiation Mike Bishop
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Roberto Peon
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Eric Rescorla
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Subodh Iyengar
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Subodh Iyengar
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Subodh Iyengar
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ian Swett
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Subodh Iyengar
- RE: Exercising Version Negotiation Lubashev, Igor
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ryan Hamilton
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ryan Hamilton
- RE: Exercising Version Negotiation Lubashev, Igor
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Eric Rescorla
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ryan Hamilton
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Roberto Peon
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ryan Hamilton
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Roberto Peon
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Christian Huitema
- RE: Exercising Version Negotiation Mike Bishop
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ryan Hamilton
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Roberto Peon
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Roberto Peon
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ryan Hamilton
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ted Hardie
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Roberto Peon
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Ryan Hamilton
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Roberto Peon
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Philipp S. Tiesel
- Re: Exercising Version Negotiation Christian Huitema