Re: Migration privacy and NAT rebinding

Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> Thu, 12 April 2018 02:01 UTC

Return-Path: <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 273D912D875 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oVpuoxQHP-hj for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ot0-x231.google.com (mail-ot0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 116861241F8 for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ot0-x231.google.com with SMTP id j8-v6so4264708ota.7 for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=pfVPYD0tdc01oW8NhwLbukjNkfzkE2KIHiIQi+FHQ9A=; b=J+Vqux+nRF+EtuSsxSMXqiJRvl3Vxc9BXTx1NwjWEacy2iQdYLsrt9jTOc152fhj24 vUhALJEqiTkXRt8em74yD6hZZSF+9Mjuzb9GT2Mn1VujrZxu6XrgcDnFYHc71OjOWEEa MucPVI1MyzpE3t/mC/rs9Jc9Q6AsAUJJTrZtm5e8WfTe3MhlIXAwGq1rLZcraILfyDCF av7c6FhZMzhQo+Ivt6N5LeF+n7ZynIivFTSv2eeNhSKK7qGynRan8iNIdWGYbdDYNxab gxzQVUVXy1x3Wby8dFadTVMbtjqixyqPWGViliJ6CGmbIT2kQ4IJfDqv7RMIudRSnq8b XTuA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pfVPYD0tdc01oW8NhwLbukjNkfzkE2KIHiIQi+FHQ9A=; b=UQhGhnwAGnev6h7sye64RRlZh4Y5OLEm9HsEQJ24p2JF/5rTEeqPE5ETKrC4jJj66x UICIV8LvWfKnILTmfXNuJMO/TtVKAOhxy2CT6yGw95gSvvMP9ylEbjAz4RJouNi/dVR2 UveGdEJaHMSicFVABbo6tXXPSXayXFXpF+5opKBcOBtBGjop87LycT1rHuif67JI8Nc4 /gzaPK0On8f9xlttRoDWRARQ0/6Z3Y+uDa0wWgc2xZM4y9dGn/uato6lK2bjpymuALId f7YhK+73QeOGAEwxhYMTkMT0kDN+85S9f5kWnPHP7//nToTtauRyJJshPttR1oRwXEh0 JBSA==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tA10/lH9jlad65zS/a8XR41QVdc9rGo7zXzkirDwrEAe5YwCbIb bR8fVzbfgLb11IfSnhfHHJrd7GpEFmFfHnI7aTc=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+AEBlBSGDtPNiCZCk8hvSiPEvr4QTnNGS1UsQf5SN31yN2mIqCXXuWC/0vx86FvZsRjW2OjvAAyyhbZjxkFBk=
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:2a09:: with SMTP id t9-v6mr4514199ota.392.1523498485142; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:25 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 2002:a9d:ac7:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 19:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <46f22a3d-b2ad-8c1a-9149-7d69dcde003c@huitema.net>
References: <CY4PR21MB063025EF8B5F228BB242920AB6BF0@CY4PR21MB0630.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <CAAZdMafa6AgbyO2ZvTBcMND_SsQZhobZJ6vXwbZ3pvQ4VmHNhg@mail.gmail.com> <CY4PR21MB06300674D06468E62B98047FB6BE0@CY4PR21MB0630.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <CAJ_4DfT-LZ3Oht8w=SZN=OqsJHQOg-ssDYeXm-kVe7by2tFsKw@mail.gmail.com> <CY4PR21MB0630BDFEB41698AFBE1F8105B6BE0@CY4PR21MB0630.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <CANatvzy-XSAdR2JqQXtR5sKu2TdQfNkWoQPyhRKz--_SYeaedQ@mail.gmail.com> <0B77E9AA-A0D2-4E12-8349-7C35471AD346@fb.com> <ED805AC0-F3CF-4543-BD4B-9BF66081BFC6@nokia.com> <45FD804B-4CEC-439E-8296-D119C37D6CCB@fb.com> <04f541bb34ed4f87995641c0d95c866c@usma1ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com> <73e7e2e6-ce61-838e-89a7-b5b81e33035d@cs.tcd.ie> <bd2ff9c4-3f48-1af0-2c22-7e63f1525886@huitema.net> <CY4PR21MB063077E7F01924EEEE51F180B6BD0@CY4PR21MB0630.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <CAKKJt-eAHmP-63Bh_xbUk8AGCaE4k_NqKe95dqwhzd3c7dPyGA@mail.gmail.com> <46f22a3d-b2ad-8c1a-9149-7d69dcde003c@huitema.net>
From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 12:01:24 +1000
Message-ID: <CABkgnnXWDZADQMdQTn1yeFy9wm22PeRo_XwQsyjZpwPWs5JudA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Migration privacy and NAT rebinding
To: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>, "quic@ietf.org" <quic@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/cyg3GL58UmN18Hltu7JIVerMNws>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 02:01:28 -0000

I don't know how realistic DKG's scenario is.  Most of these systems
aim to provide continuity of addressing because to do otherwise makes
the most common applications break all the time.  That means hiding
the consequences of handovers in the network, likely at great expense.

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 4:34 AM, Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> wrote:
> On 4/11/2018 10:31 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
>
>> The thing I've wondered most about from threads in this space, is the
>> discussion about preventing linkages due to address changes as a
>> result of NAT rebinding, and what the concerns are, and how bad
>> linking after NAT rebinding would be, or would not be.
>
> That's a good question, and it probably deserves its own thread.
>
> I think we need to consider two kinds of migration: voluntary migration,
> and NAT rebinding. I really want to support privacy for voluntary
> migration. I doubt than we can do better than a best effort for NAT
> rebinding.
>
> An example of voluntary migration is the parking lot scenario, in which
> the client will voluntarily migrate the connection from WiFi to cellular
> as the WiFi signal fades away. The migration is voluntary, as the client
> will actively decide to send packets from a different source address,
> and possibly from a different source port. Involuntary migration happens
> when something change in the network without the client's knowledge, and
> packet start arriving to the server from a different IP and port. The
> canonical example of that is NAT rebinding.
>
> There is no question in my mind that we want to prevent linkability when
> doing voluntary migration, and that means rotating the connection ID and
> breaking PN linkability. But NAT rebinding is another matter. There are
> many big arguments against expanding too much resource to specifically
> increase NAT rebinding privacy:
>
> * Most NAT rebinding happens without the client's knowledge, which
> seriously limit mitigation capability.
>
> * If the connection was using IPv6 instead of IPv4, in theory there
> would be no NAT.
>
> * In the case of residential NAT, only the port changes upon rebinding,
> so linkability is obvious.
>
> * If there is just a short interval between the old and new NAT
> bindings, adversaries can use time based solutions to link the two
> connection.
>
> The proposal in the document is that clients may simulate a voluntary
> migration when going out of quiescence. This seems like a reasonable
> best effort approach. Most NAT rebinding occurs after connections have
> been idle for some time. Since there is a long interval, adversaries
> have a harder time using time stamps for linkability. In case of long
> intervals, carrier grade NAT may have recycled both the address and the
> port. And we need to grease the migration code path in servers and
> clients, so we can just as well do that.
>
> DKG pointed out that NAT rebinding also happens in mobile platforms,
> such as a car roaming between various cells. The car network offers a
> router + NAT service to devices inside the car. The router would be
> getting a new IPv4 address at each new cell, and there would be
> rebinding of any connection between internal devices and outside
> servers. If the QUIC connection survived, the adversaries will be able
> to deduce from traffic observation the successive locations of the
> device. This seems bad. If internal devices new about the connection
> changes, they could use the voluntary mechanisms. DKG argued that we
> should have protection even if the devices don't know about the
> migration, but the only practical solution is to rotate the connection
> ID for every packet -- effectively, encrypt the connection ID. This is
> not what we are debating now. I personally think that the mobile
> platform issue should be solved with some cooperation of the mobile
> router, so the devices can engage in voluntary migration.
>
> -- Christian Huitema
>
>