IETF Logo Mail Archive

RE: Path forward with stream headers

Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be> Wed, 20 June 2018 16:32 UTC

Return-Path: <mbishop@evequefou.be>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C272130E8C for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:32:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=evequefou.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dlDxl-415M0f for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM04-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr680110.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.68.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 768B5126F72 for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=evequefou.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-evequefou-be; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=hvDo89dXvV8sMCWrD57Ixb/iz7rruIv1WA6pc7BPRjA=; b=RptPM7b25D+UFFEFeKLkCawgqcRU87+5hH8EZTxuriNq2BrNH+F3tFi6iEu3HAp9SXfCcJsvQjO4gjmFBsJV4rOLGmnqjYHjyKsMfdRyoG0E0T/nYhAb+uMja84HLogMFQi4PEpVl3eT5ds6RzuUY3728ttxFBqbTNJi4wEePYM=
Received: from BYAPR08MB3944.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (52.135.194.30) by BYAPR08MB4184.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (20.176.250.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.863.19; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:31:55 +0000
Received: from BYAPR08MB3944.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6093:5ef9:46a3:ca1f]) by BYAPR08MB3944.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::6093:5ef9:46a3:ca1f%4]) with mapi id 15.20.0863.016; Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:31:55 +0000
From: Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be>
To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>, Roberto Peon <fenix@fb.com>
CC: QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Path forward with stream headers
Thread-Topic: Path forward with stream headers
Thread-Index: AdQIENSUAUHFuhsDSVSI2JhFySDeG///nSCA//9xobCAAR9VgP//lAsAgAB3mgD//vSUkA==
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:31:55 +0000
Message-ID: <BYAPR08MB3944A7F25A5940057CCFF6F0DA770@BYAPR08MB3944.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BYAPR08MB39446BABB72F7EAC6E87CF99DA700@BYAPR08MB3944.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <B1FC187D-A536-4C51-A68A-65F72EA52DDC@fb.com> <BYAPR08MB3944608B5D376690AEF6C583DA700@BYAPR08MB3944.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> <CABkgnnVGh+Uz9FZiA_vQmNcWu9fDrUYp_ZkbvprAHKCm9NGY+w@mail.gmail.com> <0CEEAD26-8CCD-4506-AB9B-941701A3962C@fb.com> <CABkgnnVR6Sixz49MoATF_iGGBbjDs_15mQy672Zd-dL62ntsMA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABkgnnVR6Sixz49MoATF_iGGBbjDs_15mQy672Zd-dL62ntsMA@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [38.134.241.6]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BYAPR08MB4184; 7:C8uBFWnNaXcsp2mcOjVaKfa7r3hHGNeU8ekWymuFWYPndMKT93okvs3tageF975efQmWsExcZxUPNNusNmDAjK9b7Kcr7J5fQ8S5FXafa92g1vD3ATzpegY6/uUOHZUIlharrnAQjCizGdiIo9W1i39VQAbChnRbY4qhuSgphohMzYb4Ajg20ZF67Jm6kY6jYzEvGUeGBDD0w7UerjXMZo8d6UXYbQRQV9c7lZRiuziSGTUfZbHBDrDDqhbuf+8I
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 71e643a3-9d0c-4cbf-bc4f-08d5d6cb562d
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652020)(7021125)(4534165)(7022125)(4603075)(4627221)(201702281549075)(7048125)(7024125)(7027125)(7028125)(7023125)(5600026)(711020)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR08MB4184;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR08MB4184:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=mbishop@evequefou.be;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BYAPR08MB41843AD0104C1DF3C9CF559EDA770@BYAPR08MB4184.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(28532068793085)(85827821059158)(67672495146484)(21748063052155);
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3231254)(944501410)(52105095)(3002001)(93006095)(93001095)(10201501046)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(20161123562045)(20161123560045)(2016111802025)(20161123558120)(20161123564045)(6043046)(6072148)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:BYAPR08MB4184; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BYAPR08MB4184;
x-forefront-prvs: 070912876F
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39380400002)(39830400003)(396003)(346002)(376002)(366004)(199004)(189003)(13464003)(81166006)(81156014)(53546011)(97736004)(59450400001)(6506007)(3846002)(74482002)(26005)(102836004)(99286004)(229853002)(7696005)(486006)(76176011)(68736007)(6116002)(4326008)(74316002)(7736002)(5660300001)(25786009)(790700001)(8936002)(5250100002)(6246003)(53936002)(8676002)(39060400002)(316002)(478600001)(33656002)(110136005)(2900100001)(86362001)(3660700001)(446003)(55016002)(186003)(3280700002)(6306002)(236005)(6436002)(54896002)(9686003)(14454004)(476003)(11346002)(106356001)(93886005)(105586002)(66066001)(2906002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR08MB4184; H:BYAPR08MB3944.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: evequefou.be does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: j9LNgkE2ZhAsPJ2YCOrLy+SnEyxm02Mpk3aai/L7fFv7OKDoj5loFMdZYydRHuc8Q2dZhjSFoHhi9DHbo+rV6Y4wB4F+BuFoaom730gAWEEWWwTRyj7towEwe0CtbEAJdT/Naw9o6uPJ4B68NETIYYMsU32jnZd1WJ4ayyricjZ+D3JSGcO5LXAYZHOSz9SRPniBDdIkZia9HUSzxuZIcChIuq83WQ+lkzWXogPbvNd/OtPh+Etvma6VsYunGUBkqjSj3j4Y5fPl/BWPukTUdHjAcZmD1m2GjT0fewulz4xcL1r8IrK5s5sMtJNHkoxyLemNWDz5UdIDunbjXVsyiA==
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BYAPR08MB3944A7F25A5940057CCFF6F0DA770BYAPR08MB3944namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: evequefou.be
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 71e643a3-9d0c-4cbf-bc4f-08d5d6cb562d
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Jun 2018 16:31:55.3735 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 41eaf50b-882d-47eb-8c4c-0b5b76a9da8f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR08MB4184
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/kTygezbul-LIW8VUhdeI8fjRC30>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:32:02 -0000

I agree.  This is already a property of using frames.  Just like the video itself consisting of both structure and content, you have to find the frame header (and therefore its length) first.  Once you have that, you can do two things:

  *   Random access anywhere within that frame
  *   Locate the header of the next frame and begin interpreting it, if that’s received first



However, removing blocking on the frame header entirely is a pretty substantial change (and probably looks a lot like HTTP/QUIC -01 or so, with a dedicated stream for data).  I don’t feel like blocking on the first byte is necessarily any different from blocking on the first frame header which immediately follows it.



-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Thomson [mailto:martin.thomson@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 5:29 PM
To: Roberto Peon <fenix@fb.com>
Cc: Mike Bishop <mbishop@evequefou.be>; QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Path forward with stream headers



On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:21 AM Roberto Peon <fenix@fb.com<mailto:fenix@fb.com>> wrote:

> However, if one must receive the first packet of each stream, additional HoL blocking (which prevents playback/interpretation) is induced.



This is the bit I'm pushing back on.  The first byte isn't privileged.

There's a push ID, a HEADERS frame, and the start of the first DATA frame before you can start into random access.  Without that, you can't know what you are reading.  I fail to see how one additional octet is a problem here.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email