Re: Transport in 0-RTT connections for high BDP

"Martin Thomson" <mt@lowentropy.net> Thu, 07 March 2019 21:25 UTC

Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEAC312F19D for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 13:25:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=Bte3CMtr; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=8Z/Kc8lW
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aOtQyNK07rYQ for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 13:25:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF83112D4EB for <quic@ietf.org>; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 13:25:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6C920F02 for <quic@ietf.org>; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 16:25:29 -0500 (EST)
Received: from imap2 ([10.202.2.52]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 07 Mar 2019 16:25:29 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh=xibrXUdIn6nRY hlWdQGvnvJXzxYcgAM/rPiDnBNgueQ=; b=Bte3CMtrUWkRSJ+BT01qa/52DAgZh lEkLHCwbCCNNMsZ1e+5/aEpEoCVrj4oEk5770Y8urz/dU5ha/1X67WeU1+UIJnCL QLnDADy1+oUTdnlYmLbcmdy13/da5q/S0XieIf0vV91U6X7UTrMB/5KaESP7aogI mie13JlhzAw+NRhLbJYDJl31uxURaCoo9zRINwGVPdGALkXkv0o+K8do/qGssR6I QkISjCeyZQL/n6MBmu2sJL2FxkuorsHRT9vOgOx5AIN9ZYFSuJIRjIzLecZ9/YU1 MW0VF0NEe1AsPqi92/sg1qWlWJmZIQjn8MWYGWO4Z52VSdZ6VZH3RkcJA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:references:subject:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm2; bh=xibrXUdIn6nRYhlWdQGvnvJXzxYcgAM/rPiDnBNgueQ=; b=8Z/Kc8lW /mAxCcY1JPSVfnMqzKMfBdZ6GtqB5s0cXx5c+0akc7hsj4CZq/AqjWI8JcNU7fEL CuI6NWiY/8w3IIPrrDfi/YPGEdQuYhbMRnN1DSFvh6e/ap2GgKlkaXYPjwLV1c1L HNJOgT+jVRvgXWb5M9OzdNyT2itOT9kHtc3gd/+rI6jnHc/lRZXAu8tCGsee6LDP DBQsWgLhH1kNjmTg5d1KI0ErgN3AfjgfGGAp/O1CcqlGIn9qkNc8Swgu1bA0unzq X+g29GEMh5ndH/EiA2ns5T9oWp8JZ1XPt9DwCnMIpnGgtUgUoTpge/rdJGJ+m2lJ PX240/wO6wltxQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:SIyBXFb08rko6va6HLtuKdI68xelWuyFqEJRye4dHVmYSoJNQiycWQ>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedutddrfeekgdduhedvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqh ertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgrrhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhho figvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecurfgrrh grmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtnecuvehluhhs thgvrhfuihiivgeptd
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:SIyBXKN43XXSue218ZHJnqoPifkwScvo8Vx5YM9-ufvykrTUov97tg> <xmx:SIyBXKRN6eCGtQBzJBiI0qtb77Qj-BpmXzAvGChExoR7Yu6T-Smv6g> <xmx:SIyBXG2G-sHVMZDOrSYUkEgBWD6CstZqUzzlI5_g9-hawB2wo7Ss-w> <xmx:SYyBXMgKTSRh4mblipbKkexXBPiQCQwUjbMQOKQ9pCQrxanoqU7X_A>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id C6D1B7C1EB; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 16:25:28 -0500 (EST)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.5-925-g644bf8c-fmstable-20190228v5
X-Me-Personality: 92534000
Message-Id: <1e40253b-bc4e-4b5f-b5ce-6b5cc377b206@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CANatvzzskCSCgZT7wZVF88eL8yHyZdZuW-WSAgXCcHaVxE77Fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F3B0A07CFD358240926B78A680E166FF1EBABEF8@TW-MBX-P03.cnesnet.ad.cnes.fr> <CANatvzzskCSCgZT7wZVF88eL8yHyZdZuW-WSAgXCcHaVxE77Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 16:25:31 -0500
From: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: quic@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Transport in 0-RTT connections for high BDP
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/kiVgoqgzpRg5Th5zn4UWtqd1Tf0>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 21:25:33 -0000

As you say, this is a congestion control topic, not as much a QUIC-specific one.  And you are equally correct that this does not require standardization of any signaling to use it.

However, we have typically attempted to document congestion control strategies.  So in that spirit, it's a fine thing to do.

All that said, we explicitly decided to not address this particular question early in our process.  Saving information about congestion window from one connection so that it could be used to jump-start the next connection was a feature cut from HTTP/2 as well.

On Fri, Mar 8, 2019, at 08:04, Kazuho Oku wrote:
> Thank you for writing the draft.
> 
> I think the approach is fine, though I wonder if we need to a
> specification for this.
> 
> The server has the freedom to store whatever it wants in a session
> ticket. Therefore, I do not see why we need to define an extension.
> 
> Also, it has been my understanding that token (sent by NEW_TOKEN
> frame) is a better place for storing the RTT observed in last
> connection. This is because token is a per-path information that is
> updated per each path, compared to session tickets that are expected
> to rarely be updated mid-connection.
> 
> 2019年3月7日(木) 19:36 Kuhn Nicolas <Nicolas.Kuhn@cnes.fr>:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> >
> > We have uploaded a draft that describes a solution to improve QUIC’s performance during 0-RTT establishment in a high BDP context.
> >
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kuhn-quic-0rtt-bdp-00
> >
> >
> >
> > Abstract
> >
> >
> >
> >    0-RTT is designed to accelerate the throughput at the establishment
> >
> >    of a connection.  There are cases where 0-RTT alone does not improve
> >
> >    the time-to-service.
> >
> >
> >
> >    This memo discusses a solution where a fundamental characteristic of
> >
> >    the path is learned during the 1-RTT phase and shared with the 0-RTT
> >
> >    phase to accelerate the initial throughput during subsequent 0-RTT
> >
> >    connections.
> >
> >
> >
> > Would it be possible to have a small slot to present it during the next IETF meeting?
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Nico & Emile
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kazuho Oku
> 
>