Re: [Rats] Charra: certificate-name vs TPM-name
"Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com> Mon, 03 August 2020 16:41 UTC
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From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" <evoit@cisco.com>
To: "Panwei (William)" <william.panwei@huawei.com>
CC: "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Charra: certificate-name vs TPM-name
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Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 16:41:52 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Rats] Charra: certificate-name vs TPM-name
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Hi Wei Pan, I fully agree that multiple line cards per switch/router is necessary. The current model does support this, as the RPC output is a list. Lists are identified by the "[]" in the tree diagram. So for any current list entry, a <certificate-name> which is unique to an individual TPM can be placed within this list. The real difference I see between our proposals is that you want <tpm-name> explicitly listed in the RPC response, and I thought a unique <certificate-name> which doesn't require users of single TPM devices to understand <tpm-name> is preferable. I.e., some complexity is hidden within the router so that a class of developers need not care. Below are some extensive thoughts on both options. In the end I really am fine with both. To start with, I believe some useful context comes from the ietf-keystore.yang YANG model which is currently under WGLC as part of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-17. Here the following structure can be used to identify a unique certificate independent of any TPM: module: ietf-keystore.yang +--rw keystore +--rw asymmetric-keys +--rw asymmetric-key* [name] +--rw name string +--rw certificates +--rw certificate* [name] +--rw name string In this model, the certificate's name is accessed without any TPM information. The next level in the hierarchy is the key name. Note that in this model, certificate's <name> object different than currently in charra. The charra leaf <certificate-ref> can point to that keystore: path "/ks:keystore/ks:asymmetric-keys/ks:asymmetric-key" + "/ks:certificates/ks:certificate/ks:name"; This means we have access to all the certificate info which a keystore would support. More after your questions... From: Panwei, August 2, 2020 10:02 AM Hi Eric, I don't object to contain the certificate-name in the response, I just suggest to add the tpm-name in the response and use it as the key. I don't believe that one TPM per router/switch is enough. From the security perspective, I think one TPM per line card is needed, or at least using more TPMs is the trend. So the YANG module should consider the forward compatibility. By using the tpm-name as the key of the output (and containing the certificate-name in the output), there are several advantages: 1) It's easy for the readers to understand. <eric> I believe it harder. You still need to make <certificate-name> mandatory. Otherwise you likely need to acquire and test multiple keys from a keystore to find the right one. Note: by mandating the key of <tpm-name> in your proposal you are enforcing that only one response using a single key from TPM may be included. Perhaps this is a good thing. It is not a good thing if anyone ever wants to return two tpm quotes using different TPM keys as part of the same RPC response. 2) It's easy for the Verifier to distinguish which TPM each record corresponds to and which certificate that TPM uses. <eric> In both cases you need to get to the key itself from a keystore. A certificate points to a key, which is associated with a particular TPM. The key is already required for validating the signature of returned results. 3) If the re-keying happens and a new certificate-name is provided to the Verifier, the Verifier only needs to query the Attester about the certificates of the specific TPM and doesn't need to retrieve the certificates of all TPMs. <eric> This is not required for the existing model. All you need to do is a get on the existing model with the provided <certificate-name>. 4) While using different TPM names is already required, this approach doesn't further require to use different certificate names for different TPMs. <eric> If we make <certificate-name> dependent on <tpm-name>, then we have the nested keys which we are trying to avoid for those devices which only have a single TPM. The main question I see from above is whether making the <certificate-name> (which is system generated) unique across TPMs. Again I believe this is helpful for those devices with just one TPM. Eric Regards & Thanks! Wei Pan From: Eric Voit (evoit) [ <mailto:evoit@cisco.com> mailto:evoit@cisco.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 11:30 PM To: Panwei (William) < <mailto:william.panwei@huawei.com> william.panwei@huawei.com> Cc: <mailto:rats@ietf.org> rats@ietf.org Subject: Charra: certificate-name vs TPM-name Hi Wei Pan, During the RATS WG call you wondered why certificate-name should be used rather than tpm-name. There are two reasons: (1) In RFC places like: +---x tpm20-challenge-response-attestation {TPM20}? +--ro output +--ro tpm20-attestation-response* [] +--ro certificate-name? string +--ro quote? binary +--ro quote-signature binary if just the tpm-name is provided, how does a Verifier know when a re-keying happens? With the current solution, when unknown certificate-name comes back from the RPC, you just need to query: +--rw rats-support-structures +--rw tpms* [tpm-name] +--rw tpm-name string +--rw certificates +--rw certificate* [certificate-name] +--rw certificate-name string +--rw certificate-ref? leafref +--rw certificate-type? enumeration and then you can find the tpm-name, plus all the required info post-certificate upgrade in one place. If the certificate-name is not in the RPC, a Verifier will have to make several guesses on what any failure of signature verification might mean. (2) The most common implementations will have just one TPM per router/switch. These implementations might never care about the tpm-name. They will care about the certificate used on that router/switch. Thanks, Eric Eric Voit .:|:.:|:. Cisco Systems, Inc.
- [Rats] Charra: certificate-name vs TPM-name Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Charra: certificate-name vs TPM-name Panwei (William)
- Re: [Rats] Charra: certificate-name vs TPM-name Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Charra: certificate-name vs TPM-name Panwei (William)
- Re: [Rats] Charra: certificate-name vs TPM-name Eric Voit (evoit)