[Rats] Epochs

"Tschofenig, Hannes" <hannes.tschofenig@siemens.com> Wed, 29 November 2023 16:21 UTC

Return-Path: <hannes.tschofenig@siemens.com>
X-Original-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC71C15108D for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 08:21:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.107
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=siemens.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oDKfE9C_so82 for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 08:21:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from EUR02-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-vi1eur02on2087.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.241.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37620C14CE38 for <rats@ietf.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 08:21:00 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=kZqQzYy8yJjLpmkFPN03WTmYXF55eFmueKR0V1pDt02t4nhgMV4NwC9ec1mskudcveAwIkhyQkkVOzUbUaL2QZwFpqAXcfG1GDT5v31C/eqS09/4gluSxiHG2QtbLI5uuQ+f9nVIZ230/JlVgQLbuVoVGcsU8DCaVD4ssYJrBc9GIYSwHDj95JMUEHBEMWTwSF9jI4Z64Xosq+EgkO57S2R69J7QOqYGNU3whYOQrDsnrKPmgMxDorjW99BL476lIJ8kIifv8CrkRGT5msJBctNuGuXSgeymTXZbToZK1fefwrBOMroPPoKLqqnoVkNpZezfoxsCl4dIpGXtbk4zNQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=f4xHqEDn8OpAgcbF42Uib4LbXzeuEXID/V0vgFSuxm8=; b=azPaQwfOYXtFisxHhmJtQJhdbhhQFRyQq1yeTnSLSW6xaYhRm/NFCcaVbkEl1igpU58ce+HdfLL1c33ljaGbFN3h36l1m/EhbCSZM1228qekvY+LQNm4dsoM/EyYNOaC/g3T7ao2SLEeA3wG0BUIGQzZ309PSrs/cL21d6h3j+bLmDA5qmUr6LzYuVJ08hXa9huMtKKGKgjATAdbgfj2dz9RqatyAMMkJUGSS8/OkGNLKW3e/vnbsv8pSD6W+UoaEmc+nkiusCPcqHUNBHk6QzbdVUS4U0gWHR5jxilqYV/ij8NUnOZHG7eTsYFQE6dtebdvnPSWdeGAYi+SeMPFaw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=siemens.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=siemens.com; dkim=pass header.d=siemens.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=siemens.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=f4xHqEDn8OpAgcbF42Uib4LbXzeuEXID/V0vgFSuxm8=; b=USSjuU+9NialDKXBHbZaW2jB4O19czj59WJFMLE2fgshHAMOzGpEe1ree9K+KdYFZAdvdjj+Op5gCVxvCT3a8X+YW40TSa7GsOUZc3xJIMKPK0q1RUJ6ZmOZMFG8GxQ/g+ih82QvHpI17aDOo7zz3it2SwBjmmGJJOFnxtHQoyNgEPbuFOGNEKTO0+HZ8mn9nncIL5H684/5rDUWxK8A7ihMSz9rRwXr3wzQV4aN+Hy3d+buD51LwTq93nfHPUgh/uvJ45MCbAJSm0UplKHagLUhAeGB3zqA4lM2WELmNFJTspmVr+b/5DzhjhGbT1plQuHZPjos/L45ovidDD2Lrw==
Received: from AS8PR10MB7427.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:20b:5ab::22) by VI1PR10MB7910.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:800:1be::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7046.22; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:20:57 +0000
Received: from AS8PR10MB7427.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::3219:723c:10ee:c70e]) by AS8PR10MB7427.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::3219:723c:10ee:c70e%4]) with mapi id 15.20.7046.023; Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:20:57 +0000
From: "Tschofenig, Hannes" <hannes.tschofenig@siemens.com>
To: rats <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Epochs
Thread-Index: Adoinr2sleEA3VCtSSSOVapY9eMg1w==
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:20:57 +0000
Message-ID: <AS8PR10MB7427E64564890B133E2B4028EE83A@AS8PR10MB7427.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
msip_labels: MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_ActionId=85d8c4b5-7457-4130-9e40-ef7c3c67f146; MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_ContentBits=0; MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_Name=restricted; MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_SetDate=2023-11-29T08:33:29Z; MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_SiteId=38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a;
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=siemens.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AS8PR10MB7427:EE_|VI1PR10MB7910:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9b68fcef-1b2b-4284-550a-08dbf0f72b1c
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AS8PR10MB7427.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(376002)(136003)(39860400002)(346002)(396003)(366004)(230922051799003)(451199024)(64100799003)(1800799012)(186009)(316002)(6916009)(66556008)(76116006)(66946007)(64756008)(66446008)(66476007)(478600001)(71200400001)(5660300002)(38070700009)(41300700001)(33656002)(2906002)(52536014)(7116003)(8676002)(8936002)(86362001)(82960400001)(122000001)(55016003)(26005)(38100700002)(3480700007)(6506007)(7696005)(9686003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AS8PR10MB7427E64564890B133E2B4028EE83AAS8PR10MB7427EURP_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: siemens.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AS8PR10MB7427.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9b68fcef-1b2b-4284-550a-08dbf0f72b1c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Nov 2023 16:20:57.3599 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jL+Dx4Lclteubi9RpWXbY8Eefe7COrsrOvB7VZRYPqVMFsixVwY49iwAECWD6nvOeTTbHogeMWE1JL2gqhv2b0SBMBDFb9KSUmiRvbtHlC8=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR10MB7910
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/TOp9OGiSNzIMg8pJukS6QV3r-Ww>
Subject: [Rats] Epochs
X-BeenThere: rats@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Remote ATtestation procedureS <rats.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rats/>
List-Post: <mailto:rats@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2023 16:21:14 -0000

Hi all,

at the last IETF meeting I asked questions during the presentation of <draft-birkholz-rats-epoch-markers> and due to lack of time there was no possibility to answer them. Hence, I bring the question here to the mailing list.

Section 10 of RFC 9334 talks about the freshness mechanisms for attestation and also explains the concept of epochs in Section 10.3. It says:

"A third approach relies on having epoch identifiers (IDs) periodically sent to both the sender and receiver of Evidence or Attestation Results by some "epoch ID distributor"."
Appendix A.3 then provides an example with an epoch id distributor, which periodically broadcasts epoch ids to all involved parties.

During the meeting I was wondering what protocols are being used to distribute these epoch ids, a topic <draft-birkholz-rats-epoch-markers> ignores to answer. Instead, it points to another document - <draft-ietf-rats-reference-interaction-models>, which again stays at an abstract level and doesn't attempt to define a solution that is interoperable.

Who is going to standardize this protocol or these protocols?

Ciao
Hannes