IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Rats] draft-birkholz-rats-uccs

Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com> Sat, 13 March 2021 20:33 UTC

Return-Path: <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 392CB3A0C0D for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 13 Mar 2021 12:33:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P22WUrGHNKLn for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 13 Mar 2021 12:33:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76D073A0C0C for <rats@ietf.org>; Sat, 13 Mar 2021 12:33:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id f16so11628462ljm.1 for <rats@ietf.org>; Sat, 13 Mar 2021 12:33:10 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HbgBwNsSqoNkpcC2pknnVcpc3HG5MkAemd2pnjShz08=; b=D/3J7qES51CYibXI0pfW4jFV/Gbkfm5TUUTV86CRGz4SmcGFRZdvzv8yDEoJ14YTl2 91liCkuZyPybAM7bpnZW5KjfXl5umQWF7F0QM3czXIc+25Aw0mD122mF5qTCzamUFith tBGH8wpvWVCC4Peo99cimVgHbJSTXtTYGtu+l96FwTmIlpqwc8PhY5Yl3scvAPJ8FxX3 T8prDZFUwjH1DywzP+S8o/oa3xxaqaiMONzXyyVRVg08hv/OzS1Xm+tzcOstQcIM+1Aj pMKxE2G1Mmb0H5yCeVWogvjy1XTKDg2JUFYkEds8xOQi3VMHn8Q2X20/3S0WwhNcCNlR QetA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HbgBwNsSqoNkpcC2pknnVcpc3HG5MkAemd2pnjShz08=; b=h4UIljDjAPhyVQxJzF/qwhAUqig22ceslFGGA/vLw8LGgHBe5jiLbkrzPEB6HMDhMi Wu6k0s00ETE7HYCIq8kme5Kt+B+j4mEZH79dQmesTyP3YM+KdIewv8wEjtp8MoVexj4m wWQzirJ0NBQByD5KS2DSuNLM3UbiSmNPop5m/M2RK55jfmOjUTlHLMjRRZ+HuM5nUd0a PTxHIx6AHn6kcTy+hfVGhQRklC+dGii0o2VtjdOk1VxXUM1yjNwAXwrDcY+4lM/N3Qzh GoQyQm2CtCsM3SLvPO4Yp6LZSX9S1BaXUa4A0KjgpdlnFaK8dtK4+OasSk6NX9u94J43 1tfw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5323DC2oDG4tXmwE7NxTxxZ+YvV4FIaQFQAuxnDNcyNqlJKOEXkq bHPCT9McsxxVNOz8EQN4gSGvvK44pjCdSQ3BtaY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxcI1en8bDYyj3HOGi11w6vuZqM9zuqJVJXYxfKQ0YMIOsbGxRAfbPM/iA0UazcS3xZiZ7qsT5AfKwU+X2rui0=
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9017:: with SMTP id h23mr6125758ljg.473.1615667587710; Sat, 13 Mar 2021 12:33:07 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <VI1PR08MB2639119D9BB1C98A1FBF3863FA6F9@VI1PR08MB2639.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <BYAPR02MB442217661B96C66A8881DD89816F9@BYAPR02MB4422.namprd02.prod.outlook.com> <659C7D3E-B5C9-484F-85E8-5D48E2C2F856@island-resort.com> <VI1PR08MB2639F0B6CDC8DA24A300BA22FA6F9@VI1PR08MB2639.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <E98547E5-6F6D-4CDE-9F7E-54D8B5C3BCD5@island-resort.com>
In-Reply-To: <E98547E5-6F6D-4CDE-9F7E-54D8B5C3BCD5@island-resort.com>
From: Thomas Fossati <tho.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2021 20:32:56 +0000
Message-ID: <CAObGJnNGqGLKVq7Xi_-GL5w-xFNhULg4BPR18pdRWoSCvKYRiQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>
Cc: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>, Giridhar Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/moma-zkTetdBfoK6p3F8PcJBbHQ>
Subject: Re: [Rats] draft-birkholz-rats-uccs
X-BeenThere: rats@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Remote ATtestation procedureS <rats.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rats/>
List-Post: <mailto:rats@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2021 20:33:12 -0000

Hi Laurence, just a small note,

On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 7:06 PM Laurence Lundblade
<lgl@island-resort.com> wrote:
> To me putting all the security discussion in to the UCCS spec is like putting the TLS and IPsec standard into the HTML, JSON or XML standards. HTML, UCCS… just define data formats. The difference here is that CWT which has security built in and came first where as HTML, JSON and XML were invented first without security.

I see this in a slightly different way: we take a data format that has
a "secure by default" label on it and we strip off the very thing that
makes it secure.  Since we are changing its commonly understood
semantics, it's probably wise that we simultaneously state why and
when this is acceptable, along with the assumed threat model.

cheers!
-- 
Thomas

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email