[rddp] rddp Yokohama minutes
Black_David@emc.com Wed, 31 July 2002 23:46 UTC
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Subject: [rddp] rddp Yokohama minutes
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Since there have been no comments, the DRAFT minutes are the final minutes. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Black_David@emc.com [mailto:Black_David@emc.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:38 PM > To: rddp@ietf.org > Subject: [rddp] rddp Yokohama DRAFT minutes > > > Thanks to Mike Smith for taking notes. Here are > the draft minutes. Please comment either privately > or to the list - the final minutes will be sent to > the secretariat around the end of this week. > > Thanks, > --David > > IETF Remote Direct Data Placement (rddp) WG - DRAFT > Meeting minutes - July 18, 2002, Yokohama, Japan > ------------------------------------------------- > > Chair: David L. Black (black_david@emc.com) > > -- Agenda Bashing and Administrivia > > rddp is now an IETF Working Group, formed based on the ROI > (RDMA Over the Internet) BOFs in Salt Lake City and Minneapolis. > > The mailing list is up and running at rddp@ietf.org. To subscribe, > send email to rddp-request@ietf.org. Use of the rdma list at Yahoo > Groups for IETF work has ceased. > > -- Charter and Goal/Milestone review and discussion > > The official WG charter is available at: > > http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/rddp-charter.html > > The four work items on the charter encompass the entire scope of > the WG's activities. TCP framing was deliberately omitted from that > list - TCP framing work belongs in the Transport Area (tsvwg) > WG. The rddp WG is not permitted to standardize changes to transport > protocols - it may recommend (minor) SCTP specification changes to > the tsvwg WG, but TCP specification changes are not permitted. > The rddp WG has a rechartering scheduled for March 2003 whose > outcome (e.g., whether the WG will be allowed to continue) will > be based to a large extent on the progress made between now and then. > > The rddp WG is expected to work on mapping its functionality to both > SCTP and TCP - see the charter. Work to apply RDDP mechanisms to > protocols other than SCTP and TCP is outside the current charter - > those interested in such work, including generic IP-layer mechanisms > applicable to all protocols that use IP, should submit Internet-Drafts > as a basis for further discussion. The planned WG draft mapping RDDP > to TCP is currently intended to become an Informational RFC > rather than > a standards track RFC - any decision to change this is best done > with a draft in hand, so consideration will be deferred to the rddp > WG rechartering currently scheduled for March 2003. On the > subject of compatibility with proprietary interconnects/protocols > that already support RDDP-like functionality (often called RDMA), the > guidance from the Area Director is that the WG should not go out of > its way to be incompatible, but likewise, heroic efforts motivated > solely by such compatibility are also inadvisable. > > The RDMA Consortium (www.rdmaconsortium.org) was brought up. This > industry consortium was organized to work on providing functionality > over TCP, and has a goal of transferring its work to the IETF > and putting > itself out of business. The RDMA consortium was formed at a > time where > there was some confusion over whether and to what extent the IETF > would permit RDDP work over TCP - that confusion has now been resolved > by the rddp WG charter (such work is permitted, but SCTP comes first). > The WG chair will work with the RDMA consortium towards their goal > of moving their work into the IETF. It should be understood that > "the fix is not in" - while the RDMA Consortium is very > likely to submit > drafts describing its work, that does not preclude others from writing > drafts on the same or similar topics for consideration by the WG. > > -- RDMA Concerns Draft (draft-black-rdma-concerns-00.txt) > > This draft was based on concerns arising from the Minneapolis BOF > and evolved to its current form via discussion at an end2end Research > Group meeting. This draft is input to the rddp WG, and is > not expected > to become an RFC. > > The topic of potential Intellectual Property Rights issues was raised. > The only official way to notify the IETF of such issues is to send an > IPR notice to the IETF - mailing list discussions are not "official > notice". If anyone knows of an IPR claim for which they > believe a notice > should have been sent to the IETF but was not, a private email should > be sent to the WG chair as an initial step. > > An issue was raised about the absence of "application > integrity" from the > RDMA concerns draft - in addition to "system integrity" concerns, the > overwrites made possible by RDDP functionality open up > potential attacks on > applications via overwriting data between the time that an application > checks the data and the time that the application makes use > of the data. > This concern will be included in the -01 version of the RDMA > concerns draft. > > -- Problem Statement and Requirements drafts > (draft-romanow-rdma-over-ip-problem-statement-00.txt) > (draft-talpey-rdma-over-ip-requirements-00.txt) > > -01 versions of both drafts with minor revisions should hit the > Internet-Draft servers shortly after the Yokohama meeting week. > > The rddp WG is tasked to produce a problem statement/architecture > draft along with specifications of an RDDP protocol and an > RDDP control > protocol (for RDMA functionality) and mappings of those protocols to > SCTP and TCP . The problem statement draft will be expanded with > architecture text to become the first of these drafts (one possible > source is draft-bailey-roi-ddp-rdma-arch-00.txt). Randy Stewart has > a draft (draft-stewart-sctp-roi-00.txt) that could serve as the basis > for the mapping to SCTP. > > There was a discussion about the relationship between RDDP > operation sizes > (as invoked by protocols above RDDP) and transport segment > sizes (based on > network Path MTU). These sizes ought to be independent, which entails > segmentation and reassembly in the RDDP layer with the goal > of providing > an RDDP header in each transport segment; SCTP's ability to > operate without > SCTP fragmentation helps, but there are some unavoidable > situations in the > face of Path MTU changes where transport segments may have to be sent > without an RDDP header in each segment. > > -- Other Business and/or Discussion > > The division of work for applying RDDP to various protocols > will probably > be similar to the way that the IETF handles MIBs - the rddp WG will do > the basic work to define the RDDP mechanisms, and then other WGs will > handle application/mapping to their respective protocols. For the > specific case of SRP (SCSI RDMA Protocol), the IP Storage (ips) WG is > one possible place to do that application/mapping work even though > the protocol is specified by T10. > > For interface specifications (e.g., application interface to RDDP > implemented in hardware), drafts are welcome (including the envisioned > division of functionality between hardware and software), but the IETF > has not generally been enthusiastic about specifying APIs and > the like, > and does not use API specifications to drive protocol definitions. > The RDMA Consortium is currently working on verbs (abstract > API definition), > and it may be appropriate to allow that work to continue there rather > than transferring it to the IETF. > > _______________________________________________ > rddp mailing list > rddp@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rddp > _______________________________________________ rddp mailing list rddp@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rddp
- [rddp] rddp Yokohama minutes Black_David