Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100
Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org> Mon, 30 January 2017 20:14 UTC
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To: James Seng <james.seng@gmail.com>, "MH Michael Hammer (5304)" <MHammer@ag.com>
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From: Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org>
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Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:14:03 -0800
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Cc: "recentattendees@ietf.org" <recentattendees@ietf.org>, "Thompson, Jeff" <jefft0@remap.ucla.edu>, "Ietf@Ietf. Org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100
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On 1/29/17 11:08 AM, James Seng wrote: > I rescind my previous comment that the scenario I painted is rhetorical. > > None of our US fellow IETFers here have any moral authority to talk > about "inclusive" ever again. I don't derive my moral authority from my government and you have no standing to decide whether I wield it or not. Moral preening has no place in the IETF. Please stop. Dan. > -James Seng > > On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 5:44 AM, James Seng <james.seng@gmail.com > <mailto:james.seng@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Since after 9-11, things have change a lot for United States[1]. > > Especially for TSA, I remember going to SFO the first time after > 9-11, it took me 2 hours just to clear the security and I missed > my flight. I also remember pre 9-11, I could get into US for less > than 15-20mins. > > Now, for my American friends who pay in the price in time, let me > tell you what we non-American citizen has to do to get into US > after 9-11. We have been tagged, photographed, fingerprinted, all > our 10 fingers every time we have to enter US. We have been > systematically profiled, often by racial or nationality, and some > of us have to go through enhanced body-to-body search everytime we > cross security. I was put in a "Muslim" basket been a Malaysian > for a while so ... And we have to do it with a smile because if > any of us pull of a stunt like Aaron Tobey[2], we could be denied > our entry and possibility forever. > > My wife complains that the over the last decade I have put on a > lot of weight and asked me to check my photos. Unfortunately, I > don't like selfie nor do I like to take pictures of myself. But I > told her not to worry as TSA has a complete profile of me becoming > fat over the years. > > Today, we all saw a US President may-to-be calling up to forbid > Muslim to enter US, to build walls to prevent people from the > south, who threaten to get even tougher to foreigners. > > So by the same principle that Jeff is advocate, that we hold IETF > meeting where "law declares some people less valid", > I prognosticate we may no longer able to hold our meetings in US. > > [1] > http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/united-states-after-911-6-things-have-changed-2001-2093156 > <http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/united-states-after-911-6-things-have-changed-2001-2093156> > > > [2] http://dailylounge.com/the-daily/entry/how-to-fight-the-tsa > <http://dailylounge.com/the-daily/entry/how-to-fight-the-tsa> > > ps: This is rhetorical to put any doubt in rest. I love US even > though getting there is still a pain for me. > > -James Seng > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:34 PM, MH Michael Hammer (5304) > <MHammer@ag.com <mailto:MHammer@ag.com>> wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org > <mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Thompson, Jeff > > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 3:55 AM > > To: Dan Harkins > > Cc: recentattendees@ietf.org > <mailto:recentattendees@ietf.org>; Ietf@Ietf. Org > > Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no > go for IETF > > 100 > > > > On 2016/5/26, 21:11:51, "Recentattendees on behalf of Dan > Harkins" > > <recentattendees-bounces@ietf.org > <mailto:recentattendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of > dharkins@lounge.org <mailto:dharkins@lounge.org>> > > wrote: > > > > > I would also like to suggest that the ability of certain > members to > > >bring their family on a vacation that coincides with an > IETF should not > > >be a governing factor in venue selection. Many people like > to launder a > > >business trip into a family vacation (myself > > >included!) but that's not why the IETF exists and it should > have no > > >bearing on where we meet. > > > > So then, the IETF policy would read ³The IETF may hold > meetings in countries > > where the law declares some people less valid. If you are > such a person, then > > the IETF recommends that to avoid trouble with the law you > should hide who > > you are, including not bringing your family.² > > > > Is this the organization that the IETF is going to be? > > > > - Jeff > > > > Jeff, > > Is there any country in the world that meets the standard your > comment implies should be the IETF policy? Is this a case of > perfection being the enemy of good? Perhaps it is a case of > perfection being the enemy of reality. I don't know what IETF > policy should be but I do recognize that there are very real > limitations that constrain choices. I'll also point out that > the choices made will constrain the choices of participants. > I'm not advocating for any particular choice by the IETF with > regard to meeting locations. > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Recentattendees mailing list > Recentattendees@ietf.org <mailto:Recentattendees@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/recentattendees > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/recentattendees> > > > > > -- > -James Seng > > > > > -- > -James Seng
- [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no g… IAOC Chair
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… George Michaelson
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… otroan
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Barry Raveendran Greene
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lloyd Wood
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Joel Snyder
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lloyd Wood
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Jamie Baxter
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Fernando Gont
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Naeem Khademi
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Naeem Khademi
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Brian Ford (brford)
- [Recentattendees] FW: Background on Singapore go/… Brian Ford (brford)
- Re: [Recentattendees] FW: Background on Singapore… Michal Krsek