Re: [regext] REGEXT Interim Meeting (Validate Draft)

[Pieter Vandepitte <[e-mail]>]

Thanks, Roger,

It now makes much more sense to me.

Kind regards

Pieter

--
Pieter Vandepitte
Product Expert
[phone]
www.dnsbelgium.be<http://www.dnsbelgium.be>

[DNS_PUNT_Belgium_RGB]


From: regext <[e-mail]> on behalf of Roger D Carney <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday 11 June 2018 at 17:44
To: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [regext] REGEXT Interim Meeting (Validate Draft)

Good Morning,

I will be sending out minutes/notes of the Interim meeting later this week.

I agree with what Jim proposed during the meeting and here in reference to providing ids for new/existing contacts, as well as the one to one matching of the check/response items.

Just for a little color/background on the issues/goals of this draft. From a registrar standpoint we have run into difficult customer registration processing flows when we go to do a domain create and assign “roles” to contacts. Registrars can create “valid” contacts at a registry only to find out later (during domain create) that the “valid” contact created earlier is not valid for a specific contact type/role. Many registries have different policies around different contact types/roles (e.g. either the Registrant or Admin must have a postal address from a certain country but both are not required to), but you can only confirm this on a domain create when the contact type/role is being assigned. This is a huge headache for customers. They have already selected a domain name, provided contacts, provided payment and now find out they may not be eligible for the domain (and now wait for a refund) or have to edit contacts again because the registrar was not able to validate the contact information for the contact type/role earlier in the process. I hope this helps explain the issue/goal for this draft more clearly.


Thanks
Roger


From: regext [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Gould, James
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 9:27 AM
To: Pieter Vandepitte <[e-mail]>; Gould, James <jgould=[e-mail]>; Patrick Mevzek <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [regext] REGEXT Interim Meeting


Pieter,



Regardless of that, I’m still trying to figure out the use of this extension. Will a client first check whether a contact can be created, then interpret the response of the check, and finally create the command. Or will the client just try to create the contact, and in case of error interpret the error message? Maybe there’s a need for better, more structured and machine interpretable responses, but I don’t think the extra check step is the way to go. Just my 2 cents…



Based on my deep dive into draft-ietf-regext-validate, my take of the draft is that it’s used to validate the use of an existing or new contact as a contact type for a domain name of a tld.   A little of the confusion discussed during the REGEXT Interim Meeting was how the client specifies the use of an existing or new contact.  One assumption that I made was the reference to an existing contact was made by only including a contact id (<validate:id>) and definition of a new contact to validate was made by the inclusion of the additional contact attributes (<contact:postalInfo>, etc.).  That was not the case, since the extension supported reuse of new contact attributes for a different contact type and tld by referencing a contact id included earlier in the check command.  Take a look at the use of the “sh8013” contact id in the check command example, where it’s fully defined for the “registrant” type and the “COM” tld, but only referenced by contact ID for the subsequent “tech” type and “COM” tld.  Also notice that the contacts are consolidated in the check response by contact ID.  In the validate check command there are 4 contacts and the validate check response has only two.  My recommendation was to support referencing an existing contact by only supplying the contact ID, don’t create dependencies between check items to reduce the amount of duplicate information provided, and ensure that the number of items in the check response match the number of items in the check command.





—



JG







James Gould

Distinguished Engineer

[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>



703-948-3271

12061 Bluemont Way

Reston, VA 20190



Verisign.com <http://verisigninc.com/>



On 6/11/18, 4:53 AM, "Pieter Vandepitte" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:



    Maybe I’m missing something, but this draft is about validating contacts, so I don't see an issue in referring to the contact RFC. There’s no point in validating contacts, but not creating them, so the client needs to support the contact xsd anyway.



    Regardless of that, I’m still trying to figure out the use of this extension. Will a client first check whether a contact can be created, then interpret the response of the check, and finally create the command. Or will the client just try to create the contact, and in case of error interpret the error message? Maybe there’s a need for better, more structured and machine interpretable responses, but I don’t think the extra check step is the way to go. Just my 2 cents…



    Kind regards



    --

    Pieter Vandepitte

    Product Expert

    [phone]

    www.dnsbelgium.be<http://www.dnsbelgium.be>







    On 06/06/18 14:22, "regext on behalf of Gould, James" <[e-mail] on behalf of jgould=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]%20on%20behalf%20of%20jgould=[e-mail]>> wrote:



        Patrick,



        The base EPP protocol is defined using epp and eppcom, where extensions (object or command / response) would naturally be dependent on the base schemas.  Creating dependencies across extensions does not allow them to stand on their own, so my preference would be to copy and paste the elements from sibling extension XML schemas unless there is a large advantage with creating the dependency.  There are examples of cross extension dependencies that exist today, like the inclusion of the host XML schema within the domain XML schema of RFC 5731.  This dependency does require ensuring that the host XML schema is loaded ahead of the domain XML schema when pre-caching the XML schemas.  The contact reference in the validate extension takes it one step further by referencing complex types that requires the use of the contact namespace directly within the XML, so it's more than just ensuring that the contact XML schema is loaded ahead of the validate XML schema.  It is not hard to overcome, but I believe the priority should be to have the extensions stand on their own and only be dependent on the base XML schemas of epp and eppcom unless there is an overriding reason to add the cross-extension dependency.





        —



        JG







        James Gould

        Distinguished Engineer

        [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>



        703-948-3271

        12061 Bluemont Way

        Reston, VA 20190



        Verisign.com <http://verisigninc.com/>



        On 6/5/18, 8:09 PM, "regext on behalf of Patrick Mevzek" <[e-mail] on behalf of [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail][e-mail]>> wrote:



            On Mon, Jun 4, 2018, at 19:56, Gould, James wrote:

            >   4.  I don’t recommend directly referencing the

            > urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:contact-1.0 elements, since it adds a direct

            > dependency to inclusion of the contact XML schema and namespace for a

            > subset of the elements that are really specific to the validate mapping.

            > I would prefer for the validate XML schema to stand on its own by only

            > referring to epp and eppcom, with no cross references to contact.  This

            > would mean copying and pasting elements directly from the contact XML

            > schema into the validate XML schema, which is an inconvenient, but makes

            > it easier to implement.



            I am sure that not all elements of epp/eppcom namespaces are used either so under symmetry and consistency I would find more logical that all schemas are treated the same, either all referenced, or all copied (for the parts needed).



            And I see no problems in referencing the contact-1.0 one.

            Using epp/eppcom as references already make the schema dependent on other resources and not "standing on its own".



            I am not sure this has a huge consequence on implementations, especially if taking into account multiple ways to implement things (and especially doing validation or not).



            --

              Patrick Mevzek



            _______________________________________________

            regext mailing list

            [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

            https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/regext





        _______________________________________________

        regext mailing list

        [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/regext





    _______________________________________________

    regext mailing list

    [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/regext