Re: [rfc-i] I-D Action: draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-01.txt
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Wed, 04 September 2019 13:05 UTC
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From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: draft-kuehlewind-update-tag@ietf.org
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Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2019 14:05:10 +0100
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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] I-D Action: draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-01.txt
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Thanks Mirja and Suresh, I believe you have correctly identified that the "updates" relationship has for a long time been unclear. I think that authors are unable to decide how to use the tag, WG chairs and even ADs are unable to give consistent advice, and readers do not know how to understand the tag. Although previous IESGs have been clear that the meaning was per your proposed "Amends/Amended by", that clarity no longer exists. "Something should be done." Below are some comments on the current version of your draft. Hope they help. Thanks, Adrian == Substantive points Can you clarify in the document whether it is your intention that this applies to all RFCs or just to the IETF stream. --- The Abstract and Introduction say "discontinue the use", and I find that ambiguous. I do not think that you are proposing changing the metadata of every RFC related to an existing "updates" tag. Indeed, your section 4.1 explicitly says (with the caveat that it is open for discussion) that you don't propose that change. So I think you should be saying "no longer allow the use for new RFCs". It might be helpful, to change the title of section 4.1 as well. --- Part of what you are achieving is highly desirable - you are writing down what the metadata means. Thanks. I wonder, however, whether you still need to write down what "Updates" means because the large cannon still exists and will continue to be read and implemented. Readers will look at this document and say, "Great, I understand what the new tags mean," but they will be none the wiser about existing documents. I believe it would be useful to write some text about "Updates" and how it should be interpreted in the future. I think you'll find that it may cover all cases of "Amends", some cases of "Extends", and no cases of "See Also". --- I think that "Extends" needs a section like 4.2 because many people will still get stuck between "Amend" and "Extend". For example, I add a new TLV to a protocol - that's an extension, right? But it is my intention that new implementations of the base protocol must include the new TLV - oh, that's an update. == Nits: Abstract An RFC can include a tag called "Updates" which can be used to link a new RFC to an existing RFC. On publication of such an RFC, the existing RFC will include an additional metadata tag called "Updated by" which provides a link to the new RFC. I think you should use the past tense, here, to allow for the possibility that your document will become an RFC. Some published RFCs include a metadata tag called "Updates" which provides a between an RFC and an older RFC. A similar metadata tag called "Updated by" provides the reverse direction linkage. Similar text in the Introduction. --- Instead saying "this document recommends" I think you can afford to be more definitive. You are stopping it! (Abstract and Introduction) --- Instead of saying that the document "proposes" please say it "defines". (Consider the text when/if this is an RFC.) (Abstract and Introduction) --- Could you please include a ToC per the style guide. --- Section 1 s/The "Updates/Updates by" tag pair/The "Updates/Updated by" tag pair/ --- Do a quick search on the document and make a decision on the capitalisation of "update" --- 4.3 Missing ref to 7322 s/Note that both is needed/Note that both are needed/ --- Section 5 I think you're going to need to want to ask for changes to xml2rfc and idnits -----Original Message----- From: I-D-Announce <i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: 04 September 2019 11:58 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-01.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Definition of new tags for relations between RFCs Authors : Mirja Kuehlewind Suresh Krishnan Filename : draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-01.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2019-09-04 Abstract: An RFC can include a tag called "Updates" which can be used to link a new RFC to an existing RFC. On publication of such an RFC, the existing RFC will include an additional metadata tag called "Updated by" which provides a link to the new RFC. However, this tag pair is not well-defined and therefore it is currently used for multiple different purposes, which leads to confusion about the actual meaning of this tag and inconsistency in its use. This document recommends the discontinuation of the use of the updates/updated by tag pair, and instead proposes three new tag pairs that have well-defined meanings and use cases. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kuehlewind-update-tag/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-kuehlewind-update-tag-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt _______________________________________________ rfc-interest mailing list rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org https://www.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
- Re: [rfc-i] I-D Action: draft-kuehlewind-update-t… Adrian Farrel