[Rfced-future] More questions?
Michael StJohns <msj@nthpermutation.com> Mon, 27 April 2020 19:10 UTC
Return-Path: <msj@nthpermutation.com>
X-Original-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1522F3A19F2 for <rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=nthpermutation-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id se_dtXsrrQpl for <rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:10:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-x735.google.com (mail-qk1-x735.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::735]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82C543A19F0 for <rfced-future@iab.org>; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:10:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-x735.google.com with SMTP id s63so19223844qke.4 for <rfced-future@iab.org>; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:10:44 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nthpermutation-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=GCp00ehgoZ8DMdyrBHPwZRe/EvtkI5Go14Gavy2GByU=; b=Q8yyiH4TfHgJQ5BXqXQlIrWcA+AF3dypPw07IrS/SLia+zsDY/JhDXM1m21pGSZYJT pvacQmXHCeXTaApxz7hhZi+gKJYOrF5teGbJ9t0bucqIvqG93Za6URKQQa2mPYN32+aG 7Vq/1TeWntNtbNxGQJqz32OkgxsEULyixg8CXjoCsffdNwbTenlSTwerxt3tasz4zbj4 OqVt/QqLvFes0FW8KNbMLtEhUWtkaA1j0FXNJiy0Izncof+HZx0YpW5fyQHH+qUAfaNq EVQYtwFEDPTvC8JmOiit96dG0QicvjnDPSIWwCAn5fpufVZglYNaeWtOT6pQmzeke/dF KmTg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=GCp00ehgoZ8DMdyrBHPwZRe/EvtkI5Go14Gavy2GByU=; b=YXT9r9h4sKn92AV4rnCfIzMgt53cxP/v86Rer9la1i8rNdKdrQuzdtyeVRQrdpbhJz mWFNyeKwAyP6WSFoGZwRBiCeyKj5CRO5jD3lBT0cr4mBoYBca/x+kEZMA50Jzy5AVQF1 0JnZWkHtaYQB8qnS6P2InJ+OHuq7SNt9FjhaDhsJdauwhTnEDHWWkvNRF9sMjFqkfLIZ vbmZ4WZNjm5WQTml+vYM6sr2DIBS1bkyTuQrIjUcQzq0S1BORISv9CuHhrcWR0s+Osyc Nxb6CJDncKXycglv/1kqyhGCgRtc2tU5uihkAwDXiYdMXtHCqBk54mrM+V0Kue4rD3UN MP+w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYBhRR+cbULqky1o4bYFeDVxBs54WzbsvChTgwVs291ZpCyDzYb 0gvI6j3K1KBpXPMHqHZB6rnkrb1hdHWWGQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJycRL/3XYQHhueHPTenYx778WNFwyT0oQ2eTomBbmOmh7oD5naRx+QJDhWVHtRn4DEFb4ULg==
X-Received: by 2002:a37:ad0d:: with SMTP id f13mr2770890qkm.7.1588014642867; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:10:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.115] (pool-71-163-188-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [71.163.188.115]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c68sm10962212qke.121.2020.04.27.12.10.41 for <rfced-future@iab.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:10:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael StJohns <msj@nthpermutation.com>
To: rfced-future@iab.org
Message-ID: <74d98f83-f807-1051-9b00-2252a0459a13@nthpermutation.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:10:40 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfced-future/DAVhuWBw9M9ptH1VQgiglqmR2AQ>
Subject: [Rfced-future] More questions?
X-BeenThere: rfced-future@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: RFC Editor Future Development Program <rfced-future.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/options/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfced-future/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfced-future@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:10:46 -0000
[I've been staying quiet not so much because I haven't anything to say, but because I've said so much over the last 6 - 8 months on this subject. Here are the items I believe haven't yet been considered.] Questions: What level of conflicts of interest are we going to be comfortable with going forward? [Jon/Bob/Joyce all worked for a non-profit organization and their funding for the RFC process was pretty much without strings. Heather was not originally from our community and AFAIK didn't have any contracts that would have placed her in conflict. John is active in the IETF and has an ISOC board position along with - I believe but could be wrong - other contracts directly related to IETF work. ] What LOE for the RSE will our choices of responsibility prescribe? [The RSE has generally costed out as just a little over 1/2 FTE - that could vary substantially based on how the RSE model is scoped and divided] What are the appropriate roles for the technical leadership of the IETF (e.g. IAB/IESG) vs appropriate roles for the administrative leadership (e.g. LLC Board and IETF Trust) with respect to the RSE/RFC series/RPC? Would a different home for the RFC series other than the IETF be appropriate (e.g. ISOC or ICANN)? Are there associations of publishers of academic and standards documents that the IETF/RSE should consider being a part of (and for that matter external publication standards to adhere to )? Problems: The selection criterias for the IAB and IESG do not include the skills of contract/employee oversight and the devolution of responsibility for the RSE from the IAB to the RSOC did not cure this problem. Management of the RSE/RPC by committees of the IESG/IAB or their designees should probably be a last resort. [The IETF is changing into more of a business-like entity with permanent employees and control of its own finances; perhaps take advantage of that with a look at the general model for non-profit publishing - maybe as part of the RSE's role. ] Observation: https://github.com/intarchboard/rfced-future/blob/master/PossibleGoalsandPointsMade.md needs to be sorted into tactical and strategic and the tactical items (e.g. time to process, XML implementations, etc) should be deferred with prejudice until we deal with what the RSE actually is/should be/will be. Those items might provide some flavor to the discussion, but seriously - if you need someone with XML skills to work the project for a time, you let the RSE make a selection and you hire them for a time. Observation: Focus on the role vs focus on what we want the series to be. These aren't either/or items, but the discussion is going to be more efficient if we focus on one or the other. In any event, the items listed as "Do focus on what we want the series to be" are really bug reports rather than "what we want the series to be". Instead: World facing and focused publication vs "The Journal of the IETF" (aka "Who are the customers that should have a say?") Publication for revenue vs freely available (e.g. IEEE model vs current IETF model) Well-edited vs rubber-stamped (e.g. input criteria and output criteria for the RSE processes). Stable technology vs flavor of the month (At one point "Word Perfect" was considered the archival format for some DOD documents) Consensus-directed vs Community input with professional oversight and guidance. Mike
- [Rfced-future] More questions? Michael StJohns
- Re: [Rfced-future] More questions? John Levine
- Re: [Rfced-future] More questions? Eliot Lear
- Re: [Rfced-future] More questions? Michael StJohns
- Re: [Rfced-future] More questions? Eliot Lear