IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [rmcat] Priority and rtcweb

Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Tue, 14 November 2017 21:38 UTC

Return-Path: <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E76C1289C3 for <rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 13:38:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.22
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k4PWI-ELQEta for <rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 13:37:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 399C0127419 for <rmcat@ietf.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 13:37:57 -0800 (PST)
X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-d91ff700000020f7-3c-5a0b623307e7
Received: from ESESSHC021.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.81]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 78.A3.08439.3326B0A5; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:37:55 +0100 (CET)
Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.145) by oa.msg.ericsson.com (153.88.183.81) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.352.0; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:37:54 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-ericsson-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=NHSXonChJJlWhf5N26+jzQHj1m/nT5Wtflo4gcHYEQA=; b=B3pm3Mk+t3k+rd4VFD1gjNlySIrgqde96LFewTagZ3M8EP9hURcb0/PkV21OHy6uI56UocMJHcoZh0+ptYqAxT+sYj2XM2olgpURXyDiqYRAV625z5Bt7qxBdxzdyMt+G3PkkjjaUanHe8tTn4Sk45Q/vECv6ZtQERRzgf+tpAg=
Received: from DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.141.234.148) by DB6PR07MB3253.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.175.233.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.239.4; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:37:53 +0000
Received: from DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0fd:9f9f:e232:b301]) by DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e0fd:9f9f:e232:b301%16]) with mapi id 15.20.0239.005; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:37:52 +0000
From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
To: Varun Singh <varun@callstats.io>, Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no>
CC: Zaheduzzaman Sarker <zaheduzzaman.sarker@ericsson.com>, "rmcat@ietf.org" <rmcat@ietf.org>, Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>, "W3C@CSIO" <webrtc@callstats.io>
Thread-Topic: [rmcat] Priority and rtcweb
Thread-Index: AQHTXYNiWzVJUBsXO06oaFXS+zl55qMUZRAA
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:37:51 +0000
Message-ID: <DB4PR07MB34887B56C06371BF3C0D938C2280@DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CACHXSv7z3KSNB+4PZ9+AgrW1nzc7ZH2fbNbBDoeKVqm=SYmZuQ@mail.gmail.com> <B01370E2-AABE-41D4-A7A7-8A062ED3B42B@ifi.uio.no> <CACHXSv7hm7d14RaCyBwyuSfAep+Znp_g0o8zJpOFnnXD+RbRHg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CACHXSv7hm7d14RaCyBwyuSfAep+Znp_g0o8zJpOFnnXD+RbRHg@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com;
x-originating-ip: [31.133.151.23]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB6PR07MB3253; 6:5ppSNGKJYXt+l8mz5RAj3Ur9Prtf4mJKp5tgsAOFTY1MXFjIxGYTUfjUmpb/VTNbzb/7UCPYMLIVXB11C7cjJLZmBsUc+aAzsQg0M7jrr821Zo2astmYSeA2Etyl7E3TgHECO8cM3fu44zpjObrT/aHSQ8+8o2ExseJdFYOh5UnNki+LFdO3Z5q5JQA6g+KimVJBVqX8h/+pmvGEs6q2lj4EXn4fLfsVaPjkFpUh32TI/HXM5mB0T5psTfuH5DDl8+AoImfcUEMJHRG8u/dfr8ZDC9OzapJXWhDqJ2BTwRj0urYg2Pkt7iCfHU7ddxfs3/yPkzOnivuBDEdkLznrtdUzZ7LrOBf1rc5WmTTEvO4=; 5:6INb98f2Itq8SiFJvEk8tHWQaR1Q6w6tU+SJc61CaPGBijjiR4llrwiuj/6sshnufWg6leJkvJptAvnaYHa1lJXLElxhIH1ORWym3Z+ynW4ey2f3LLXfxig5zDgyuSOmGOMIAYxEhwFe7UWQQAaUiQ8NALHaFUU8vhTRrMPGeaE=; 24:fYuVDfJZRlErOH3jXjJQ/4cTwU9DpRJz7w4AwxAxBrvCfAUx7QlMuJXwxe8vVW4uL5q9gUOAXJwaLwpsqr8gDQJTtXblGsHZJ5B4By5NdUk=; 7:8DxpTJPo+k4oZg3ail8gFqNVLSx7qP8/3xf063O9B4IyfOoPKsld6Pv3AvJfNklWxZ8ERfaQBPCt3eXPIyfVd6kOynnWn0dboIBh6rGjxBOFhoe4k5nixVAUboNRz7TVB+YnvbH83qhpbk9CJfd1wHSO3TW1bcMGj0h2IDinzQOvKWqsYHFe9VdQ5X7TmZcTWQBBKiqljGeWFN9hO8B3PTCebx+uzb/nrF8eUeIOytK108dAwrZvPpGlt5xxqrCT
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS;SSOR;
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:SKI; SCL:-1; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(346002)(376002)(39860400002)(199003)(24454002)(189002)(68736007)(9326002)(316002)(19609705001)(478600001)(86362001)(3660700001)(3280700002)(2900100001)(8936002)(790700001)(99286004)(2906002)(5250100002)(3846002)(81156014)(102836003)(81166006)(8676002)(25786009)(966005)(6116002)(33656002)(5660300001)(7696004)(236005)(97736004)(6246003)(6436002)(606006)(2950100002)(55016002)(54896002)(229853002)(53936002)(50986999)(9686003)(6306002)(7736002)(106356001)(53546010)(189998001)(14454004)(54906003)(110136005)(4326008)(6506006)(105586002)(66066001)(101416001)(53386004)(53376002)(54356999)(76176999)(74316002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB6PR07MB3253; H:DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 471d6ad5-9668-4d17-45a0-08d52ba7f57c
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(4534020)(4602075)(4627115)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(2017052603199); SRVR:DB6PR07MB3253;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB6PR07MB3253:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DB6PR07MB3253FF6D9D6C38486BDD2573C2280@DB6PR07MB3253.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(37575265505322)(120809045254105)(227612066756510)(21748063052155);
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(6040450)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(93006095)(93001095)(100000703101)(100105400095)(3231022)(3002001)(10201501046)(6041248)(20161123564025)(20161123560025)(20161123558100)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562025)(20161123555025)(6072148)(201708071742011)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:DB6PR07MB3253; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:DB6PR07MB3253;
x-forefront-prvs: 04916EA04C
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB4PR07MB34887B56C06371BF3C0D938C2280DB4PR07MB348eurprd_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 471d6ad5-9668-4d17-45a0-08d52ba7f57c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Nov 2017 21:37:51.9950 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR07MB3253
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02SfUgTcRjH+e12t9ts+GvN9lAouOhtlZZGTtDI/0ZkZH+ELbKuPHU5NXZm rihWluJM3aSMmaWItczCCMssUZyVzuzFcr1RLZdBhlBJr4rVzrvA/z73fD/P89w9HE2o7pDz aFNuPmvJZcxaSiF1pbalrIjdFWJc6fCF6t2jfUj/60E7qW9++YXSf3d2UXrbwweSdaSh1ltJ GKr9fsrQ2PhbYmhuHiY2SY2KhHTWbCpgLdFrdyqyOt1u6d6BU6iwpOkHZUMDTmRHchrwavD+ DUjsSEGrcA+Cu/WTJB+ocB8CWxHDB1JcToBz4qpoVUvgha9FfBhGUNn4nOBbKJwATZ6f03PV 2ACTV37IeInAFxA4n7dJ+WAOXgKuowOUIC2F7to6UuAYGApcDDp0cN9C8LWt4VGJjXD021Zh 130EI+duTY+R4xQIjJ+W8IxwOPh/vp2uE1gDr0bqJMK3YWjseEQIHAaj7/+Qgr8bxl+Wk0I9 EoobBsVbhMOTujLELwPskcEzr10cFAt2RwcpBG4Kehz3xO5kaG34SAiBC8H5iSqxQweesSpR yoaSijcim+He5TaRh0gofbzNgVbUzHhzgfOgKxCgeFbi2eB1jUhrgtcgggdruRUtKJFwsmxY JvASOF57VjazXo9kl1AYx3K7cjJjYqNYi2k3x+XlRuWy+ddQ8N/qbp1ceBM9HUvyIEwj7Szl ju0hRhXJFHDWHA8CmtCqle01CqNKmc5YD7CWvB2WfWaW86D5tFSrURrUQRtnMvlsNsvuZS3/ Uwktn2dDG77IM6qqE248vHTduljTGz8RP67xWfecyEicVHRuKerO/GC+Yc9MV2ck7l9qal3E HTzWUfRpT9nmXvn6qKaYq1vnJhWkhR1axhQOZtx261J1ofen1J+zXsclLugcLTUfjojwMsv9 G13JOZr+9ndx7jNHfk+xaaVUf/fXirPF8a97tVIui1mlIywc8w9uJmIQVwMAAA==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rmcat/yBSTzSW_s2yOM2Zjxk4VRZzVd-c>
Subject: Re: [rmcat] Priority and rtcweb
X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." <rmcat.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rmcat/>
List-Post: <mailto:rmcat@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 21:38:00 -0000

Hi

SCReAM supports a float priority value, in reality though I doubt that there is much benefit to have a higher granularity than the given values as we deal with live encoding with video coders that often produce a messy output. In the presentation today you’ll see an example of prioritization in the wild (page 12 in https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-rmcat-scream-experiments/ )

/Ingemar


From: Varun Singh [mailto:varun@callstats.io]
Sent: den 14 november 2017 04:51
To: Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no>
Cc: Zaheduzzaman Sarker <zaheduzzaman.sarker@ericsson.com>; rmcat@ietf.org; Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>; W3C@CSIO <webrtc@callstats.io>
Subject: Re: [rmcat] Priority and rtcweb

Hi Michael,

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no<mailto:michawe@ifi.uio.no>> wrote:
Can I hijack this thread to talk about priority?


Priority is already defined in the API document to the following levels: high, medium, low, very-low.
These labels map to the text in the transport document

        Thus, when congestion occurs, a "high" priority flow will have the
        ability to send 8 times as much data as a "very-low" priority flow if
        both have data to send. This prioritization is independent of the
        media type. The details of which packet to send first are
        implementation defined.

WEBRTC API: https://rawgit.com/w3c/webrtc-pc/master/webrtc.html#dom-rtcprioritytype


There was a thread about priority in rtcweb - someone asking for a float… coupled-cc can easily support a float, but Harald’s transport draft doesn’t support it. Opinions went back and forth for a bit...
I think we should get more WebRTC deployment and not more debate on small details that delays the work, so I don’t want to be a troublemaker and didn’t interfere with this discussion.
But, what is the view of people in rmcat about this?


While the API does not provide a float value, nonetheless, doesn't the WebRTC stack or framework under the JS API have all the information to convert the set labels in to a float values after the flows are assigned values?


Cheers,
Michael


On Nov 13, 2017, at 2:41 PM, Varun Singh <varun@callstats.io<mailto:varun@callstats.io>> wrote:

Hi,

Was there a study done for the parameters needed for congestion control? I know we debated this at length, were there slides created by  the congestion control proponents, that I can reference.

From the top of my head, I remember there’s
+ priority (needed by coupled congestion control)

I’m asking this for w3c input. They already have max bitrate, max framearte, and degradation preference  degradation preference indicates where the bits should be allocated: in maintaining frame rates or frame sizes.

Feedback is appreciated To make sure we didn’t miss anything.

Cheers,
Varun.
--
Founder, CEO, callstats.io<http://callstats.io/>
http://www.callstats.io<http://www.callstats.io/>

Interested in networking, media quality, and diagnostics.
We are hiring!: www.callstats.io/jobs/<http://www.callstats.io/jobs/>




--
Founder, CEO, callstats.io<http://callstats.io>
http://www.callstats.io

Interested in networking, media quality, and diagnostics.
We are hiring!: www.callstats.io/jobs/<http://www.callstats.io/jobs/>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email