Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-reqts-01.txt
"Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com> Fri, 10 March 2006 21:38 UTC
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FHpJa-0005yb-2z; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:38:26 -0500
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FBveo-0000k9-3S for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:11:58 -0500
Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FBvem-0007YQ-MZ for routing-discussion@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:11:58 -0500
Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com ([64.102.124.13]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Feb 2006 07:11:56 -0800
X-BrightmailFiltered: true
X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA==
X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,137,1139212800"; d="scan'208"; a="22403644:sNHT30313920"
Received: from [10.83.15.50] (rtp-tnadeau-vpn1.cisco.com [10.83.15.50]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with SMTP id k1MFBrLO014666; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:11:54 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <071c01c637b9$0b5009b0$33849ed9@Puppy>
References: <071c01c637b9$0b5009b0$33849ed9@Puppy>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
X-Priority: 3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; delsp="yes"; format="flowed"
Message-Id: <155B91F2-6C44-497E-9865-C6DA54B72AF1@cisco.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:11:47 -0500
To: routing-discussion@ietf.org, Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>, Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:38:20 -0500
Cc:
Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-reqts-01.txt
X-BeenThere: routing-discussion@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Routing Area General mailing list <routing-discussion.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion>, <mailto:routing-discussion-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:routing-discussion@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:routing-discussion-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion>, <mailto:routing-discussion-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: routing-discussion-bounces@ietf.org
Alex/Bill, A comments on the draft below. 1) In section 4.1 you have the following: 2. A Management Information Base (MIB) must be written for the protocol. The MIB does not need to submitted for Proposed Standard at the same time as the routing protocol, but must be at least an Internet Draft. I suggest that this requirement be a little stronger in that the document must "be at least a Working Group Draft". Just being a draft doesn't mean that it is going to be an agreed/inter-op standard some day. Well, neither does a WG draft, but it has a better chance of being one. Also, if you just require it to be an ID, how do you handle say individual submissions that might conflict/compete with a WG document and so forth? I think just requiring a WG draft is cleaner. 2) Further along in the same section the following statement appears, which to me seems far too open-ended for my tastes in that it gives far too much latitude for an IESG review to kill or delay a protocol based on personal tastes for what constitutes "set forth explicitly". 3. The security architecture of the protocol must be set forth explicitly. The security architecture must include mechanisms for authenticating protocol messages and may include other forms of protection. I am also concerned by the second sentence, "...may include other forms". I am not a security expert, but to me, it seems more straight forward if we require the aforementioned "security architecture", to contain at least one method of each: - message authentication - replay protection - message encryption - message filtering (to help prevent DOS attacks) 3) I would just say "At least two independent..." here 4. Two or more independent interoperable implementations must exist. Also, is this for *any* standards track documents or just protocol specifications? Namely, does this impact MIBs, PIBs, XML schemas, etc... out of a WG? 4) Further down, point #5 seems a bit specious to me. Do you mean that they have been tested within a vendor's test lab or in somewhere else? I would say that an independent test such as the ones done at GMU or UNH might be what you are looking for here. Also, HOW do you mean for them to be tested? Above you talk much about your concerns over scale testing, but the statement in #5 just says "tested". Please be more specific. 5. There must be evidence that the major features of the protocol have been tested. 5) Section 4.2 gives me similar concerns as above. Specifically the security requirement in #3: 3. The security architecture of the protocol must be set forth explicitly. The security architecture must include mechanisms for authenticating protocol messages and may include other forms of protection. 6) Further in 4.2 I have similar concerns in the testing section: 5. There must be evidence that all features of the protocol have been tested, running between at least two implementations. This must include that all of the security features have been demonstrated to operate, and that the mechanisms defined in the protocol actually provide the intended protection. How should this be demonstrated? 7) Further in 4.2 you have: 4. Two or more interoperable implementations must exist. At least two must be written independently. Please be more specific about what "written independently" means. I *think* you mean that the code is not derived from the same code base (i.e.: purchased code or two divergent code trains within a single vendor), but please be specific anyway. 8) Further in 4.2 you have: 6. There must be significant operational experience. This must include running in a moderate number routers configured in a moderately complex topology, and must be part of the operational Internet. All significant features of the protocol must be exercised. In the case of an Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP), both interior and exterior routes must be carried (unless another mechanism is provided for the exterior routes). In the case of a Exterior Gateway Protocol (EGP), it must carry the full complement of exterior routes. I think you should also include as part of the operational experience, some statement about the MIBs being used/tested and found to be useful. This is the phase where you might go back and refine them, so its important that this be included. In fact, you might also want to include them explicitly as part of the interop statements above. 9) Under section 5. Submitting, I would like you to consider a time limit for the processing of documents both by the WG and the IESG review process. Specifically, if you are going to put more burden on the WG and document editors to produce better specifications, I don't see why it is not appropriate to also put more stringent review guidelines on the review process. All too often, documents seem to be lost in document review for (literally) a half of a year or more. I suggest that we do something like say that if a document has been offered for review to the IESG or the RTG Area Dir review, and no answer has been given in 6 months, that the document proceed to the next phase. 10) 5.4: 4. A pointer (e.g. URL) to the implementation and interoperability report previously submitted to the IETF secretariat. Shouldn't this be an IETF RFC or somewhere that can be solidly referenced? References to URLs can come and go, right? I would say a fixed copy of the interop report is what you are looking for. 11) Later in 5.5: 5. A pointer to the corresponding MIB document with an explanation of how the MIB maturity requirement has been satisfied, or an explanation of why no MIB modifications are required to support functionality described in the Technical Specification. I am unclear on what the "MIB maturity requirement" is; can you be more specific or refer to a specific section in the document? --Tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alex Zinin" <zinin@psg.com> > To: <routing-discussion@ietf.org> > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:02 PM > Subject: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-reqts-01.txt > > >> This is to start a Routing Area-wide two-week Last Call on this >> document >> for submission to the IESG for publication as BCP. The Last Call >> ends on >> March 2nd, 2006. >> >> The document is available here: >> >> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard- > reqts-01.txt >> >> Abstract: >> >>> This document provides guidance for the advancement of the > protocols >>> produced within the IETF Routing Area. It places implementation > and >>> interoperability constraints on protocols earlier in the >>> standards >>> process than RFC 2026, based on RFC 2026's provision that the >>> IESG >>> may require implementation and/or operational experience prior to >>> granting Proposed Standard status to a specification that > materially >>> affects the core Internet protocols or that specifies behavior >>> that >>> may have significant operational impact on the Internet. >>> >>> We also discuss the applicability of these rules to protocols and >>> their extensions. >> >> >> -- >> Alex >> http://www.psg.com/~zinin >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> routing-discussion mailing list >> routing-discussion@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ routing-discussion mailing list routing-discussion@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion
- Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-reqts-… Alex Zinin
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Christian Hopps
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Eric Rosen
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Curtis Villamizar
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Bill Fenner
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Bill Fenner
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Eric Rosen
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Bill Fenner
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Eric Rosen
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Adrian Farrel
- RE: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Susan Hares
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Acee Lindem
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Alia Atlas
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Curtis Villamizar
- Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-reqts-… Alia Atlas
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Eric Rosen
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Curtis Villamizar
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Eric Rosen
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Curtis Villamizar
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Thomas D. Nadeau
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Geoff Huston
- Re: Last Call: draft-fenner-zinin-rtg-standard-re… Thomas D. Nadeau