[Rserpool] Full minutest of 51st IETF Rserpool meeting
"Stillman Maureen (NVO-NIC/Ithaca)" <Maureen.Stillman@nokia.com> Tue, 28 August 2001 20:11 UTC
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From: "Stillman Maureen (NVO-NIC/Ithaca)" <Maureen.Stillman@nokia.com>
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Subject: [Rserpool] Full minutest of 51st IETF Rserpool meeting
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As always, send any comments to the list. -- maureen Minutes of Reliable Server Pooling WG, Monday August 6, 2001 IETF 51 Co-Chairs: Lyndon Ong (lyong@ciena.com) Maureen Stillman (maureen.stillman@nokia.com) 54 people attended this meeting. Agenda: 1) Status of the Proposed Informational RFC on Requirements for Reliable Server Pooling 2) Open Issues on WG ASAP and ENRP docs Speakers: Randy Stewart, Qiaobing Xie draft-ietf-rserpool-asap-00.txt draft-ietf-rserpool-enrp-00.txt 3) Candidate ENRP and ASAP Speaker: Ram Gopal draft-gopal-asap-candidate-00.txt draft-gopal-enrp-candidate-00.txt Comparison with requirements and with WG items ASAP and ENRP. 4) Comments on comparison draft Speaker: John Loughney draft-ietf-reserpool-comp-01.txt 5) RSERPOOL naming and selection functional support using SLP Speaker: Erik Guttman 6) General Discussion 7) Next Steps Summary of Agenda Items 1) Status of the Proposed Informational RFC on Requirements for Reliable Server Pooling Currently the requirements document is on track for approval as an informational RFC. The IESG will review this document shortly. 2) Open Issues on WG ASAP and ENRP docs ASAP: Randy Stewart presented open issues and changes to ASAP. Changes agreed upon will be documented in the next version of the Internet draft. 1) The message format should be changed to TLV. 2) The ENRP server discovery needs work to add manual, mcast channel, and DNS alternatives. 3) Load balancing needs work. 4) We discussed the "business card" idea - exchange pool handle of PU but concerns were expressed about security and transparency issues. The conclusion was that this is better handled at the application layer. 5) Do we have any structure to names? Can they indicate more than the service, i.e., characteristics desired? Should session layer provide more complex semantics? Conclusion: we can add this later it currently is not a priority. Also, PEs should be identical for failover purposes. 6) The subject of the transport protocol for Rserpool has come up several times. TCP vs. SCTP - do the A-Ds have a preference for us to choose one? Scott indicated that this is not a requirement. We should consider the flexibility vs. the additional complexity. It may be desirable to consider PU-PE separately from PU-ENRP and PE-ENRP, since the transport usage is different. It was pointed out that SCTP would logically be used for interchange with the ENRP server, but that there might be other types of traffic between PU and PE, such as for example real-time traffic that would use RTP/UDP. PU-PE is more application-dependent. 7) Server discovery issues - There was a discussion of use of well-known channel, concerns with scalability. There is good reason to look at existing alternatives such as DNS and SLP for this, as they have already figured out many of the issues. 8) Security remains a difficult issue. Options include TLS and HIP. Security and failover is a big problem. Questions concerning whether we are the group with the right expertise to address this. Problems involve state transfer, esp. if you consider mechanisms like cipher block chaining. We agreed to form a small design team to put together a description of the security problems introduced by Rserpool and recommendations on how to address them and what is in Rserpool scope. This group should include lower level issues in their discussion, such as hijack of IP address. ENRP: Qiaobing Xie presented open issues and changes to ENRP. Changes agreed upon will be documented in the next version of the Internet draft. 1) Peer discovery - how do you discover other ENRP servers when you come up as an ENRP server? Two possible solutions are to use SLP or DNS mechanisms. 2) Synchronization of name space - do we need an audit mechanism? How closely do we need to synchronize name server information? The current assumption based on prototyping is one minute. The soft state as used in SLP might be helpful - this allows the server to specify a refresh interval so that if the server is congested it can space out refresh requests at longer intervals. This solution is scalable. 3) Load balancing - current mechanism is extremely simple and robust - choose the server that responds fastest. This server will be either geographically closest or further but less loaded, so you choose what is most efficient in general, also this does not require complex processing under heavy load. 3) Candidate ENRP and ASAP Ram Gopal spoke on candidate ENRP and ASAP and compared them with the current WG drafts and identified some open issues. 1) Startup should not be multicast-dependent. The C-draft also proposes a method of load balancing ENRP servers. PE registration with ENRP server - questions on scalability, algorithm 2) Server unreliability is an issue. Server information may be inconsistent due to network access problems; can you trust the information at the "home" server? The proposal is to distribute information across all ENRP servers 3) Heartbeat - security and authorization issues. 4) Auto-deregistration -- Propose that PE should state lifetime when it registers. 5) Security - Propose that endpoint name should be encrypted 6) PU-PE authentication - should it be required? Some comments: Subgroups are a bad idea; we should create separate pools instead. Authorization is in question - is it needed? The current ENRP load balancing algorithm is in some sense self-regulating, i.e., there is no advantage to violating it - you will go to a more congested or distant PE. ENRP server selection gives you the "best" server for your purposes. 7) ASCII vs. binary message format - advantages to ASCII - SIP? Disadvantages - efficiency of storage and conversion, e.g., 500 servers with redundancy = 1000 addresses needing to be passed. 8) Load balancing - use of contexts - questions on whether this is a problem 9) Proxy PE - how are proxies handled in the Rserpool architecture? 9) Alternative transport protocols - more debate on the transport protocol 4) Comments on comparison draft John Loughney discussed comparison draft. He has updated DNS text and needs to update SLP with Erik's help. Is the document sufficient, or do we need to consider others? Some suggestions that we should include comparison of ENRP and ASAP with others, however as works in progress these drafts are a moving target. 5) RSERPOOL naming and selection functional support using SLP Erik is willing to help with analysis and possible extension of SLP in support of Rserpool. SLP has some deficiencies in security, as it tends to be very open He suggests mapping a name to more than just to an endpoint, but to also include characteristics of that endpoint. In SLP multicast is not the only mechanism for finding a DA (directory agent = ENRP server), but also allows use of configured addresses. Erik proposed exploring an ENRP-SLP mapping which he has already started to work on. In contrast to ENRP, Erik suggests that a "home" server not needed. It can be distributed using a mesh mechanism (see reference below). Qiaobing's comment was that "home" idea in ENRP is for efficiency. The SLP mesh document entitled "mSLP - Mesh enhanced service location protocol" is draft-zhao-slp-da-interaction-12.txt SLP v2 is the current RFC. This RFC requires user agent applications to poll the network to determine if a service appears or disappears. Notification and subscription for SLP (experimental) extensions - experimental because of lack of real (vs. lab) implementation - addresses this issue. The notification/subscription function is documented in an experimental RFC 3082 entitled "notification and subscription in SLP". We need to consider service agent (SA) fault tolerance in SLP. How easy is it to extend SLP? Can SLP be used to do ENRP server discovery? Support of real-time failover is required for PE discovery. This is not currently possible through SLP and may be out of its scope. 6) General Discussion Major security issues were raised during the WG discussions. The area director reminded the group of the new encryption directive from the IESG. The directive is outlined in the Internet draft draft-ietf-saag-whyenc-00.txt. 7) Next Steps Further discussion of the new technical ideas for the protocol will be continued on the list. A design team to discuss security issues is being formed. The group will formulate the problem and scope of the working group effort and present this to the list for comment. A teleconference will be held after the meeting, to be announced on the list. Everyone is welcome to participate. _______________________________________________ rserpool mailing list rserpool@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rserpool
- [Rserpool] Full minutest of 51st IETF Rserpool me… Stillman Maureen (NVO-NIC/Ithaca)