[Rserpool] FW: [Fwd: Re: Review: draft-ietf-rserpool-arch-11.txt] Baker comments

Randy's second response to Fred's comments.

L. Ong

Fred Baker wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2006, at 8:54 AM, Randall Stewart wrote:
> 
>> But without having read the rest of your email (I was replying and  
>> reading in real time)... does the basic concepts of what we are  
>> trying to do.. however poorly they were presented to you.. get  
>> through and make sense to you???
> 
> 
> Backing off and thinking hard, yes, I think can work most of it out.  
> Personally, I think that I shouldn't have to work that hard, but it  is 
> possible to eventually figure it out - after I have mentally  translated 
> the terminology into something else that makes some sense  to me. The 
> big thing is that now I have to remember the translations  and apply 
> them in real time as I read.

Then you and I agree.. I too keep a seperate terminology translation
in my head... its why I did NOT go much further than to add
a couple paragraphs to the INTRO section.. I did not "win" the
terminology discussion we had... so I constantly keep two sets
of terms (maybe more) in my head.. and thus am often times
confused when reading the architecture :-D

> 
> I didn't work out what a "pool user" was until I saw the FTP example  at 
> the end, and then I blanched a bit. So I am a random user of an  FTP 
> service, and I want to use the services of some remote set of  systems 
> that constitute a rserpool. I, the user (or his software) am  supposed 
> to know and care how some random service I access on the  Internet is 
> supposed to be structured?
> 
> For example, suppose that ftpeng.cisco.com consists of a stack of  
> servers. I have some pictures of Vint Cerf receiving the Order of  
> Saints Cyril and Methodius (comparable to the US Medal of Freedom)  last 
> week plus other activities in Bulgaria at ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/ 
> fred/Sofia-7-3-2006-web/Sofia-7-3-2006-web.html. Suppose that I  provide 
> that URL to my wife, to use on our Mac at home. She plunks it  into 
> Safari, and the thing you would prefer to happen next is that  the Mac 
> wonders whether there is a server pool and starts with some  non-FTP and 
> non-DNS protocol to obtain a Pool Handle and then a Pool  Element Handle 
> to work out which server it should talk with, after  which it starts 
> using the appropriate FTPng protocol (based on BEEP)  to access the 
> pictures. My initial thought is - "not bloody likely".  The second 
> model, in which a proxy on site works it out, is more  palatable. The 
> Mac goes to the named machine (one of the addresses it  receives from 
> DNS), and if there is a load sharing activity going on  it acts as a 
> proxy to to real server behind it, or maybe changes  "its" address so 
> that the client is talking to the real server behind  it, as HTTP does.
> 
> I dare you to try to explain this expectation to my wife. Her eyes  will 
> glaze over at the mention of the computer...

I agree.. but of course if this is used for other things (not FTP) such
as call control engines or other FT devices where its really computers
using services (think my CDMA network I mentioned earlier)... then its
not an issue.. I don't think we have ever concentrated on trying to
make FTP/HTTP work over rserpool... except an example to try to
illustrate the concepts... Maybe we need a different example :-D

> 
> It would have really helped me if the examples were up front so I  could 
> see what you wanted to do, so that as I read the document I  could work 
> out how you were doing it.

ahh.. that would be interesting and maybe a better example :-D

> 
> I spoke with Pekka Savola last evening (while watching a soccer  match) 
> and mentioned passive voice; his comment is that folks for  whom English 
> is a second language would like to see passive voice  outlawed and all 
> users of it banished to a place of pain. I have  heard the same from 
> people whose first languages vary quite a bit -  Finnish in his case, 
> Japanese, Chinese, German, and so on. One of the  authors is German, and 
> maybe he will disagree with me.

Yes, I think Michael told me at breakfast he changed most of the
document to this voice... :-D

R

-- 
Randall Stewart
NSSTG - Cisco Systems Inc.
803-345-0369 <or> 815-342-5222 (cell)

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