Re: [rtcweb] JSEP question: How to set up simulcast for server-originated calls?

Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Thu, 08 November 2018 09:46 UTC

Return-Path: <harald@alvestrand.no>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524191293FB for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:46:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zDHy0dJjIzjK for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:46:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [IPv6:2001:700:1:2::117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEB95128B14 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:46:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5B67C0B70 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 10:46:17 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no
Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a2rci5jKsjaO for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 10:46:16 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:e6a7:a0ff:fe0b:6b0c] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:e6a7:a0ff:fe0b:6b0c]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 752E47C078D for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 10:46:15 +0100 (CET)
To: rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <185c8d1d-3971-ad09-eee0-a26bed446a96@alvestrand.no> <A5687AE0-7D07-46C8-AF93-7B0D0DE0BC4B@mozilla.com> <CAOW+2dveTZ8jtAyNNftv=fMi_C8LifvE8RtUuszg0-eUYcgANg@mail.gmail.com> <CALiegfnChcJ9W52e0C-CyyCw+9jUnJg0Wszv7DTd_CtpvEC2Xg@mail.gmail.com> <5FB0A50F-DAF3-47C4-A5F5-8DA20586C9E2@iii.ca> <CALiegf=tFL1zagfp7qyPBWn6r+NQ8SKW=OBKc=6ZOVwgHzcHWg@mail.gmail.com> <C6D65A1E-F701-4E47-9B82-B4EA444BA7A0@iii.ca> <CAOW+2duUbcQ3OCa-vdw57Y7676KOOyCN8wY17Vjw1up_7HDpCQ@mail.gmail.com> <1541576399.5384.7.camel@ericsson.com> <CALiegfkS+o+qzTcQwp0oRd6O1qNTGWuoMMvUe8hyy9H2Cm9U2g@mail.gmail.com> <1541591320.5597.5.camel@ericsson.com> <CALiegfkC3kTOmwfV4sRgJys5+_uYo0G_-R5CBdmaLtz6Hvx+KA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=harald@alvestrand.no; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFRpbhYBEADXu8uE7LDQgrEB/zclYiwWRb50FnuJjIdK5Q7t68tSxx+LU8HTfxwOgHo9 vMyQvntoRBOHQZDJzvdAnZj/7vtl9RDfWvhUz+o9jSMyORzrt0kiW2QNICVkOkc0ZbI14Rn8 EjFRinK5m5+PXrng3PwZgK+sQJ1nzUxjE9oGTWClsAEqJw62z7JmzNqaEwAyHoHAZ1JAptSP ak91dUxjueJ2R+rFUBl6ParRZ2de7QKr3rN5Jbu/ikjHsAeTSo0R0BPKbzU23tXXxQ/dADvM V/PZp3hRFmXT7x05Q82O6k6hsGd5fJToBDRrlsC3jwWWhDhFhsWcdYKxFbYUsJVetPrWDtD4 6sjrbsQ+7kWRYgQWvL2EJ0s7QGpLxitopoISUEt0MlCcJhq7ZxiWhGnwM3GgADn+9W+aqwuk Y1tlUbdw0qdHyU0WM0k/yPd/eOghk3PLtlOizg4Q22VqfzNRXd3pwUmVjPYHQS0PwIjzuTEI em03qlVeJ8xn0X9W90E8PEnxZmREZBI90qCcUrxWOywEcLq21eLXurRzwnbY3oi6NxmSedcL xDWFdrVTHfPNNqh8zqXV/z9Ezz+7kSwgRygpG5+/sHfFq/YivoSHJdkL8xDzlNiqYCs8EL4A ipQWlKIuFH1F/pXLmXZlcDExw6aTlAP2rR+rw4Lc7kENZlMMMwARAQABzS9IYXJhbGQgQWx2 ZXN0cmFuZCAoMjAxNCkgPGhhcmFsZEBhbHZlc3RyYW5kLm5vPsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCVO3uHAIb IwUJCWYBgAYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQawFW3omifDRKiA/+KtWpGwNa EaMMjxuVhdvMkQ6cS362iWydVbha03TBf/7HM380nO+2/t4S0kiSRtX89bY9lvrjS5oHd0tZ qS14vwBn8ZKbZl+k/NRiFlNNxhBx1PDRni1lfh/lU4xJraKI17h2h9mVJbMGk0kFuLqDUwMc 18mZZcfJEeUxSVUCndFMab4LQWSvRaqcwGrpDXuCxmWzMxtRjZzS2vkNX0oiBO7/NuEdQZL8 /CM3/GTqEd6kqY5Rkddvhr21KqhDyNT0NYRLgQ4yToTRDeXrHkjDD8cIQJhOHSNm6/3tuHB1 Bunxg1If3oEZxZirTGiuNZfBUAuXXJa//wEqhS+28/iQc6RE4bQXh2TyqtHs1mn3VDeKqbp7 lp31FfQ6GVGUaVfKfhg6UPSeczHTKWG3vX5UL7SOLXyaSniuYDkPIV/YR46GFPNhSsQ9YccU 5zAbn8ZhyONwO7524WjhIHgITiPVnCiSIHQKOw0S3+Ns0/5TIUgEc6+M97vsJTxTOqKfPthj xkHckF7VUFzu9ee6IMupJJp1wxVjpPQpJTjUG2aDnWk+E2OArulIjHER2dj0DEiOuqjjwTQH CKfrsWUMIs6TJ9jIKEfOSVOz5opGKLimQaOJ8Y1NYZKOy7fyJjofcC+dkAIpYBRzQTdDXm0A 4eryQBqLSpRldX4rvnU77i2/ryHOwU0EVGluFgEQAK2r1cmzqfJzOIielYx4OGVWlh3TmGdI mPgYI8yx/W8Uyvwknto7Qm5HaBBy9/33usNiovygYLFr7X5U/+ynXClkpAHaPOzS+bMCybpd UsS9Yq/jPmyq0Tlqn6b1tjSjFwysTiUVRS6nHufRlHQEOyxlYAjmePfjJI85g9J3iOa3eY87 +YSlF/rzhPrlvW0yD1YBGBmtuDdRnd4qSof8pcVmiN91QylbnTO5+/VtQtZydk2couaBHkf+ h0eDlJLB7igJ6Ks0ae2UoUNOBv2F1roQ1jZC8yMPScXygmjsoBSuTUirHatyR7AUiCHNymB+ EdhK4Vl+ZVHdCY9l269g5ocw0y6BZofHpqhE9K3RGBWQjWKTXuOk1fVjLfAum3wQqztYEhlD uKZgfEn7reDuzBq4cqzUe7CI6lZwCU7DnA0Dz2vBaqBhrZb7eKfTqmXddNm/dXmPn1nB554N fxWoxb3L8fHXwLgJiBgxLM6OYhJM51PxwW1qoQM1ax6gu+H101uEE4ZZq+s7c301HqwFwGMi SMmn1oJ7/+OquMkYHjeVAhxRE6blcRH2cmqxFSrpHsHgpXMVyWgTZRZsMmQathzCTUWKf5hC EOzwb4rp/UvU1LUHo1uPqbBafW62VB+iUaFp/zOg69Wo8/Z6urM5m+ldiWTbx+ivxKlPQDEA 332dABEBAAHCwWUEGAECAA8FAlRpbhYCGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQawFW3omifDRKhg//eHcjvxcA ENNe66f5R3ULi5pMbrHGLMGirVX9pHTRf5+5OFaGr8bwXeYkCHpptpxr2Kk/PUzpUWOL2uvL lh7QhPw3+GoEWubXOAgHiQW5iIzkA9wYw/nctZ+5veHN7InVqJ7djhtTN7K9Luj4nDR1T7Vf 61zpCKLlEW6W5MAp4slRVzRiFfaMfMYkxLm6MBxC961j8Lrqx2XNMGugaYh1QzcFYTbFmGKX 5SY4EQsETiB0PeE3IBVtXfiabrk8YX2IuL9BrEgD6GngXTd78hUMnZeqjvnS772bjRgwLCz7 Hab6hQESrFCNXfxzb39y5DLHwXtB/HruYqVD48XvPnNV0UNsWcS+7rtPFMmkd3MTvoAOWjkV zeQHpvF71IlwWginXbkf9aR/QsAbMIQDZWhsd+ma67V6g6KH41r6mNXAgK2JlA1CqgblM7iB hl01vL0V5bkbInZq2sB505Hn1DSc4NoP2WHlwe8Bm8vVG5oyfyPw9ReS9WLVY9w7fK4EKOgk VnOsIQuE0WIPT0Ak+hJ0UigOduuCX7s7NIVaOgWQe1q4Xytgj1RHjg9qlA6eQiTUrAx7Mu7s eliWCFuWsQXoaktVEDjoWVbP9dgozanL5kwWh/sJNtHVQbgu3IG4w8D3QvvOE83+jAdzgOzv pqHJkrqlWu+R9ZqBucZLqjQvQZk=
Message-ID: <1d08beaa-4829-0f89-71f3-dc9e6d779bf9@alvestrand.no>
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 10:46:11 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CALiegfkC3kTOmwfV4sRgJys5+_uYo0G_-R5CBdmaLtz6Hvx+KA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-GB
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/HWxuTMvyrT98P--7kmIuGImZ5Gk>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] JSEP question: How to set up simulcast for server-originated calls?
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 09:46:23 -0000

On 11/07/2018 01:00 PM, Iñaki Baz Castillo wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 12:48, Stefan Håkansson LK
> <stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com> wrote:
>> An non inspected SDP offer/answer can influence _how_ it is sent, but I
>> think that is per design - no point in encoding with an encoder that
>> the remote can't decode etc.
> I can buy that argument when it comes to just that: codec and RTCP
> interoperability. Ok, WebRTC 1.0 assumes that app developers cannot
> correlate capabilities in JS so the browser does it auto-magically.
>
> But here we are talking about simulcast, which consumes resources and
> requires more network uplink. And I want to control what my app sends
> (and its max bitrate) because sending 3 streams instead of just 1
> means more CPU usage, battery and bandwidth (money).
>
> A received UFO should not change that.

Inaki, you're attacking a proposal that has not been made.

We have long ago defined the API that lets the local application control
*exactly* what simulcast can be sent.
What the SDP controls is telling the local browser (and application)
what the other end is willing to accept.

>
>

-- 
Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark.